Jesta Posted September 12 Report Posted September 12 I recently picked this one up on Jauce, with very little information. I liked it for being unusual, but that also means there aren’t that many out there to compare it to… Thanks to a previous post by SpartanCrest I have found this at the Met: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/34912 but there is no info on the tsuba. This site: https://tsubashi.com/product/nobuie-boars-eye/ has something very similar, and notes that it might be “Nobuie School”. Does anyone have an opinion on whether it would be Nobuie School or from some other origin? Iron, with dimensions of 7.8cm x 7.8cm. Edit: I also found this one: https://japanesesword.com/archived-pages/2017/9/22/shoami-tsuba That refers to the design just as shoami. 2 Quote
ROKUJURO Posted September 12 Report Posted September 12 Not so unusual in my opinion. I think I saw it on HIGO TSUBA, and on TEIMEI (inverted INOME) as well: The surface on yours as well as the SHOAMI sample is not original to these TSUBA I think. There was a lot of corrosion eating away material. I am no expert on NOBUIE, but I don't see this design as typical for that school. 4 Quote
Spartancrest Posted September 12 Report Posted September 12 One very similar in the Metropolitan Museum of Art https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/34912 it is decorated in "Kaneiye" [Kaneie] style with an indistinct signature. Inscribed on the obverse: 山城國伏見住金家 Yamashiro no Kuni Fushimi-jū Kaneie (Kaneie, resident of Fushimi in Yamashiro province) You might need to look also at Saotome? As well as shoami - https://yakiba.com/tsuba-saotome/ Justyn I agree with Jean - I don't see it as Nobuie. - but the design looks like it was used by a lot of schools - - so who knows? This one https://tsubashi.com/product/nobuie-boars-eye/ States the signature is "Nobuie" however the text description states several times that it may not be by Nobuie. "Much confusion and contradicting information about Nobuie, even among high-end collectors. Impossible to say whether this is 1 st generation, 2nd generation, student, forgery, or part of a school of smiths that all signed “Nobuie”. I think many people claiming they have a 1st or 2nd generation Nobuie tsuba, really do not know what they are talking about. Even with papers, one cannot be sure, as the consensus about Nobuie changes from generation to generation. My guess for this tsuba is that it is neither 1 st nor 2nd generation, but possibly would be accepted as “Nobuie” school." 3 Quote
Jesta Posted September 13 Author Report Posted September 13 Thank you both. Does the Saotome design you show have inome? Is that design a very stylised version? I can see that the one Jean shows is similar, but I can’t find many with the very large inome with rounded (rather than pointed) shapes. I would also guess that mine doesn’t have hitsu-ana since the inome don’t extend to the seppadai like the one in the Met. 1 Quote
Spartancrest Posted September 13 Report Posted September 13 I just thought the large hitsu/riohitsu are a major design feature, exactly what they may represent can be difficult to work out. I found this one in one of my Japanese books "TSUBA KANSHOKI" - page 96 - the design says "Bag", sukashi. Koshoami . 4 Quote
Jesta Posted September 13 Author Report Posted September 13 2 hours ago, Spartancrest said: I just thought the large hitsu/riohitsu are a major design feature, exactly what they may represent can be difficult to work out. I found this one in one of my Japanese books "TSUBA KANSHOKI" - page 96 - the design says "Bag", sukashi. Koshoami . Thanks, as always… The way the hitsu are presented makes it hard to know if they were meant to be the same thing or something very different. I was just getting used to seeing how the three in this post could be inome, and then you throw “bag” into the mix . Now I am just confused… I suppose that the ones on mine could also be beans… What do you think about giving it a “koshoami” or “shoami” school origin? 1 Quote
Spartancrest Posted September 13 Report Posted September 13 Very likely Ko-shoami [Ko just means "early"] the texture of your piece would certainly give the impression of an early or old piece. I just found this one as well https://japanesesword.com/archived-pages/2017/9/22/shoami-tsuba Just described as Shoami - but it looks ancient to me! It is very close to yours in size. Hey they never made just one! 3 Quote
thutson Posted September 13 Report Posted September 13 I have a brass-inlaid Heianjo tsuba with very similar shaped hitsu. 3 Quote
FlorianB Posted September 14 Report Posted September 14 I own a modest Tsuba with Tanabata festival motif. It depicts several papers with inscriptions hung in bamboo trees. Note the shape of the one upper right (upper left on the ura). I wonder if such paper (used for what? Uchiwa fans?) is the origin of the sukashi in question. 2 Quote
Jesta Posted September 14 Author Report Posted September 14 3 hours ago, FlorianB said: I own a modest Tsuba with Tanabata festival motif. It depicts several papers with inscriptions hung in bamboo trees. Note the shape of the one upper right (upper left on the ura). I wonder if such paper (used for what? Uchiwa fans?) is the origin of the sukashi in question. That's a very interesting comparison. It definitely looks very similar, particularly because of the rounded, rather than pointed, side. Quote
Spartancrest Posted September 14 Report Posted September 14 Florian could be on to something here. There is a similar tsuba in the Metropolitan Museum https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/32182 With fat heart shaped "fans"? This from another tsuba found on-line - not sure if it is a fan or some sort of commemoration plaque? Then there is this where the whole tsuba is that shape. https://www.mokumeganeya.com/e/mokumeganetour/2019/08/28/find-mokume-gane-chapter-20/ 1 3 Quote
ROKUJURO Posted September 19 Report Posted September 19 On 9/14/2025 at 2:13 PM, Spartancrest said: not sure if it is a fan or some sort of commemoration plaque? I think I can read the name ISHIHARA on the plaque if that was of any importance. 1 Quote
When Necessary Posted September 20 Report Posted September 20 On 9/14/2025 at 9:13 PM, Spartancrest said: Florian could be on to something here. There is a similar tsuba in the Metropolitan Museum https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/32182 With fat heart shaped "fans"? This from another tsuba found on-line - not sure if it is a fan or some sort of commemoration plaque? Then there is this where the whole tsuba is that shape. https://www.mokumeganeya.com/e/mokumeganetour/2019/08/28/find-mokume-gane-chapter-20/ That mokumegane beauty looks like a 'large income tsuba' - as in you'd need one to buy it! 1 1 Quote
Spartancrest Posted September 22 Report Posted September 22 A shape used in porcelain as well. 1 Quote
Tamagucci Posted September 26 Report Posted September 26 I saw this tsuba and was reminded of this thread, I think the shape is refered to as "suhama" and was common in the Heian period? Tho I think your piece lacks the tapering of the edges of the hoan tsuba pictured. 2 Quote
Jesta Posted September 26 Author Report Posted September 26 1 hour ago, Tamagucci said: I saw this tsuba and was reminded of this thread, I think the shape is refered to as "suhama" and was common in the Heian period? Tho I think your piece lacks the tapering of the edges of the hoan tsuba pictured. Thank you. Yes, no tapering edges, but the shape of the openwork on the right is identical. For time being I will refer to the shape as either a fan or a tray… The tray design would fit with the porcelain plate posted by Dale. That could be a version of the tray… Quote
ROKUJURO Posted September 26 Report Posted September 26 (edited) Usually, this is called SUHAMA motif: Edited September 26 by ROKUJURO 2 Quote
Tamagucci Posted September 26 Report Posted September 26 11 minutes ago, ROKUJURO said: Usually, this is called SUHAMA motif: This is what I thought as well when I searched up the term. Perhaps it's a misattribution by the author and MFA Boston, but I guess it could also be a stylized version of the symbol given the size of the hitsu-ana (but I haven't found another refrence to this), or perhaps they are literally talking about the "sandbar" like shape. Quote
ROKUJURO Posted September 26 Report Posted September 26 (edited) Another one: The design refers to a naturally formed coastal line where round puddles are made in the sand by wind and waves. Like natural "harbours" Edited September 26 by ROKUJURO 1 Quote
Steves87 Posted September 26 Report Posted September 26 Jean is right, and there is a really good visual in Sesko's Encyclopaedia of Japanese Swords, which is the partial image below 1 1 1 Quote
Spartancrest Posted Thursday at 12:17 AM Report Posted Thursday at 12:17 AM https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/177375089349 [why do they like to show the tsuba the wrong way up?] about W 47 mm x H 50 mm 1 1 Quote
Jesta Posted Thursday at 12:56 AM Author Report Posted Thursday at 12:56 AM 34 minutes ago, Spartancrest said: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/177375089349 [why do they like to show the tsuba the wrong way up?] Thanks. Another one that looks pretty ancient. I think that the upside down presentation probably comes from thinking that swords are slung and presented edge down, and seen from the point back to the hilt, in Western cultures so they just transfer that here. You can see this even in modern katanas (largely sold from China to the US) where the tsuba is put on the wrong way round so that the design faces the blade rather than the tsuka. 1 Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted Thursday at 10:02 AM Report Posted Thursday at 10:02 AM On 9/26/2025 at 6:27 PM, ROKUJURO said: Another one: The design refers to a naturally formed coastal line where round puddles are made in the sand by wind and waves. Like natural "harbours" Not sure where this comes from Jean, but it says 残雪酷似 'looks very much like lingering, (unmelted, accumulated, remaining) snow'. 1 Quote
ROKUJURO Posted Thursday at 10:33 AM Report Posted Thursday at 10:33 AM Thank you Piers, Uwe was friendly enough to translate that for me from the TSUBA's description that came from the TOKUGAWA museum. I think this is just another 'picture' this design might be called (....TSUBA theme is called “残雪” (ZANSETSU = remaining snow ). I can easily understand it, but it seems it is not frequently seen so. 1 Quote
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