Nagasone Okisato Nyudo Kotetsu

[Sebuh]

Pretty cool blade in my own opinion for sale by Aoi, already a bid for 23,500,000 Yen. Interested to hear everyone’s thoughts on a decently expensive blade. 

 

https://sword-auction.com/en/product/27515/as25316-katana-in-shirasaya-with-koshirae-nbthk-tokubetsu-hozon-token-consignment-sale-signature-nagasone-okisato-nyudo-kotetsu/

 

[Infinite_Wisdumb]

seconded.  at $170,000 USD, it is quite pricey......

[Rawa]

Wazamono ranked kaji, but only tokuho.

"Kotetsu's swords were known for their great strength and their ability to cut through helmets. However, Kotetsu's swords were often faked, and they were so well faked that even Kotetsu himself is said to have not been able to tell the difference. When presented with a fake on one occasion, he is reported to have said "The blade is mine but the signature is not."

Shintetsu? 

[Shugyosha]

Sebuh, 

I can’t see anything that would convince me to buy that blade. Other than it being by a big name, what is there to like? 
 

It may be Aoi’s photography or rather scanning, but it looks completely lifeless and devoid of anything that would appeal to me. Furthermore, I don’t like the obvious shintetsu on a Shinto blade for a start and that’s the real killer for me 

(leaving aside that I know that it’s not a big deal in Japanese circles and that I’ll never be spending that kind of money on a sword).

 

Whilst I know that good blades often go to shinsa to confirm the mei, why only TH papers? It’s a big name after all… but I’m a cynic. What are your thoughts? 

[Rawa]

Gimei wouldn't be pappered. But yeah blade really was popular as its creator.

[Sebuh]

3 hours ago, Shugyosha said:

Sebuh, 

I can’t see anything that would convince me to buy that blade. Other than it being by a big name, what is there to like? 
 

It may be Aoi’s photography or rather scanning, but it looks completely lifeless and devoid of anything that would appeal to me. Furthermore, I don’t like the obvious shintetsu on a Shinto blade for a start and that’s the real killer for me 

(leaving aside that I know that it’s not a big deal in Japanese circles and that I’ll never be spending that kind of money on a sword).

 

Whilst I know that good blades often go to shinsa to confirm the mei, why only TH papers? It’s a big name after all… but I’m a cynic. What are your thoughts? 

 

exactly, I don’t really see a point. Personally I don’t like it. Was more surprised at the price range. Hence me bringing it up because 170,000$ is quite the amount.

[Sebuh]

5 hours ago, Infinite_Wisdumb said:

seconded.  at $170,000 USD, it is quite pricey......

rather get a TJ Kamakura masterpiece for that price.. maybe my tastes aren’t well enough to understand shinto. Oh well.

[Hoshi]

Hi! 

 

I can help clarify. 

 

In this case, you're buying the Nakago. 

 

The sword ranks low in his corpus, hence the low price. This is the Kotetsu baseline price for sleepy work. It's the same with Kyomaro, there is a baseline value for the signature and an ubu nakago, even if the work is from the "hungover Kyomaro" period of his life (or, his mornings). With signed swords, we are often face with a large variance in quality for a given smith. 

 

The problem: The nioiguchi of the sword is inconsistent in different sections: there is widening, fraying and narrowing. That's not good on a suguha, and moreover, the nioiguchi is not deep. For Kotetsu, you want a deep nioiguchi, this is what he is known for. Besides that, the lesser issue is that the hada has surprising problems for a Shinto sword, while nagare at the hamachi is textbook for Kotetsu, outside of the hamachi it is disappointing.  

 

A good condition, Juyo-level Kotetsu with the textbook deep nioiguchi  will run in the ~40M-60M yen range. The absolute topmost works will never be for sale. 

 

Remember that the goal of online retail is to sell to folks who treat swords as commodities, this means that they don't understand what they see, but can track prices associated with signature and (wrongly believe) they can tell when something is cheap, or expensive. There is always a reason for the price. it is the winning move to sell overseas in order to arbitrage on this tendency, for big name works with substantive issues which would make for a difficult sell in Japan. 

 

Personally, I do not understand the hype of Kotetsu. Probably, simply because I've never had the chance to hold in-hand a topmost work. 

 

I keep an open mind. 

 

Best,

Hoshi

 

[Lewis B]

With a bidder named 'Kotetsu' I wouldn't be surprised if the sale isn't consummated. For big sales like this what procedures does AOI go through to ensure the bidding is kosher? The big auction houses make bidders jump through a lot of hoops to ensure they are genuine and that the bidder has the funds to pay. 

 

This one went unsold at least via AOI auction

 

[Rawa]

By kosher you mean clean? 

[Lewis B]

Kosher as in legitimate/real

[CSM101]

Last year I saw a Kotetsu wakizashi, Tokubetso Hozon = 13 Mio. Yen. So, a normal market price would be 18 Mio. Yen for a katana with TH (more or less). 

[Hoshi]

Quote

Last year I saw a Kotetsu wakizashi, Tokubetso Hozon = 13 Mio. Yen. So, a normal market price would be 18 Mio. Yen for a katana with TH (more or less). 

 

This is not quite accurate nowadays. The premium on full length blades is much higher than that over a wakizashi, nowadays at least, and it is closer to the double.

 

The exception of course is Koto period Ko-Wakizashi, such as those of Sadamune, which command similar prices to Sadamune daito. Alternatively, items where the blade's deki is a secondary attribute, such as a Horimono-do-saku wakizashi by Tadatsuna, where most of the value is driven by the Horimono and not the blade per se, so wakizashi or daito doesn't make much of a difference. 

 

Also, the notion of "normal market price" is curious and I would caution against it, Nihonto are not commodities, perhaps with the exception of a few prolific makers with a high degree of homogeneity across their corpus (e.g., some Tadayoshi). You can establish a floor for the lower end quality items where the nakago carries the value or the attribution carries the value, but beyond that, the quality of the deki and rarity factors will drive the supply/demand dynamics, and hence the price. 

 

Quote

 With a bidder named 'Kotetsu' I wouldn't be surprised if the sale isn't consummated. For big sales like this what procedures does AOI go through to ensure the bidding is kosher? The big auction houses make bidders jump through a lot of hoops to ensure they are genuine and that the bidder has the funds to pay. 

 

It's an honor system. 

 

However, I believe the transaction is highly likely to conclude. In the past decade, collectors in China have been the biggest market after Japan for elite shinto makers. If I had to place a wager, I would bet that this goes to China.  

 

Best,

 

Hoshi

[Sansei]

"However, I believe the transaction is highly likely to conclude. In the past decade, collectors in China have been the biggest market after Japan for elite shinto makers. If I had to place a wager, I would bet that this goes to China."

 

Yes, Hoshi. I would not doubt a Chinese buyer. I am not making comparisons about the "item" being auctioned, but the Chinese have made some big (some would say outlandish) purchases. For them, it's all about cornering the market.

 

"Cornering the market means acquiring enough control over a particular commodity or stock to manipulate its price. This is typically done by owning a significant portion of the available supply, allowing the owner to set prices and potentially profit from the manipulation."

 

The Chinese have been doing the same thing with racing homing pigeons; which can be a very lucrative business:

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/animal-news/belgian-racing-pigeon-fetches-record-price-1-9-million-n1247858

[Sebuh]

8 hours ago, Hoshi said:

Hi! 

 

I can help clarify. 

 

In this case, you're buying the Nakago. 

 

The sword ranks low in his corpus, hence the low price. This is the Kotetsu baseline price for sleepy work. It's the same with Kyomaro, there is a baseline value for the signature and an ubu nakago, even if the work is from the "hungover Kyomaro" period of his life (or, his mornings). With signed swords, we are often face with a large variance in quality for a given smith. 

 

The problem: The nioiguchi of the sword is inconsistent in different sections: there is widening, fraying and narrowing. That's not good on a suguha, and moreover, the nioiguchi is not deep. For Kotetsu, you want a deep nioiguchi, this is what he is known for. Besides that, the lesser issue is that the hada has surprising problems for a Shinto sword, while nagare at the hamachi is textbook for Kotetsu, outside of the hamachi it is disappointing.  

 

A good condition, Juyo-level Kotetsu with the textbook deep nioiguchi  will run in the ~40M-60M yen range. The absolute topmost works will never be for sale. 

 

Remember that the goal of online retail is to sell to folks who treat swords as commodities, this means that they don't understand what they see, but can track prices associated with signature and (wrongly believe) they can tell when something is cheap, or expensive. There is always a reason for the price. it is the winning move to sell overseas in order to arbitrage on this tendency, for big name works with substantive issues which would make for a difficult sell in Japan. 

 

Personally, I do not understand the hype of Kotetsu. Probably, simply because I've never had the chance to hold in-hand a topmost work. 

 

I keep an open mind. 

 

Best,

Hoshi

 

 

Thank you for the clarification Hoshi, it was exactly what I was hoping for. Appreciate your insight on the topic. 

 

Glad to see i’m not the only one whose not appealed by this blade.

[Jacques]

Disobliging comments from people who have never held this sword in their hands.