Nihonto Battle and Blood by Era?

[MEENag]

I recently bought my first nihonto and am waiting for delivery from Japan that should happen sometime in August. One question that comes up pretty quickly when talking to people (dudes) about my purchase is whether it has ever seen battle or blood. My wife (not a dude) is slightly concerned about bringing something into the house that might have death associated with it.  Obviously I have no way of knowing such things unless it was a test cut blade, which was way out of budget even if I wanted it.

I don’t want to romanticize death, but it is an interesting question to me. What percentage of blades, by era, were likely to have seen battle or blood over their life? It stands to reason that the older the blade, the more likely it saw battle since many (most?) were modified/shortened to meet the use case of each successive time period. 

Pre-Sengoku period blades seem to have had many opportunities for battle in my mind, but I am still learning about Japanese history. While Sengoku was the warring states period, I wonder how much of the country was actively battling using swords. I suspect it was still relatively rare overall.  I’ve seen listings pointing out kirikomi as a selling point on a blade, but it seems more likely to me that such damage was completely unrelated to actual battle. 
Forgive my dumb question if it is one, or if it had been discussed before. 
Thanks!

 

Jeff 

[Rivkin]

Its an interesting question and there are a few things to consider.

First, Japanese have extensive records on battle casualties from Nanbokucho to late Muromachi, from various sources. In Nanbokucho for example after sometime in service you would write a letter detailing your wounds, lost equipment, kills, tropheys taken. Which today produces many Ph.Ds dealing with these letters.

By memory swords in their most effective periods go to like 35% of total casualties, but generally oscillate between 5 and 20%. The rest are bows, later yari etc.. In Nambokucho there is surprising percentage of stones, axes and other tools that are seldom imagined.

Also, most surviving swordsmen (i.e. capable of leaving a record) even in Nambokucho would have zero kills, and people with five+ claimed kills would be around 5% of the fighting force.

 

Second, swords overall are not made to survive battles. European sword some people estimate to survives 3 active engagements on average. Japanese are generally much more prone to hagire and catastrophic chipping so it is comparable at best. However, we are dealing with survivors - so either blades which never killed and thus were preserved, or the blades which somehow killed successfully.

So Edo period sword obviously probably never killed. Muromachi - we are talking about huge supply of swords, yet 5-10% sword casualty rates and most sword construction being cheap and iffy enough to be smelted if it kills and chips rather than being repolished. Its probably sub 1% chance it killed.

Nanbokucho - there is actually a solid chance it did.

[PNSSHOGUN]

The only way to know for sure are swords with:

• direct provenance to a battle or incident
• swords with Kiritsuke Mei noting a specific engagement
• ikido-tameshi (cutting test on a live body)
• signs of battle such as multiple Kirikomi or Hakobore 

Anything beyond this is well within the realms of idle speculation. Swords carried during WWII may hold a higher chance of being used to kill people, especially those carried during the China campaign. Once again true evidence is required to confirm this. 

 

Sword in a real fight: http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/katanainfight.html

Kiritsuke-Mei: https://web.archive.org/web/20201109031925/https://yuhindo.com/osafune-motoshige-katana/

China campaign recollection (not for the faint of heart): https://zzwave.com/cmfweb/wiihist/confess/spies.html  

 

 

[Mister Gunto]

As mentioned above, if your blade is Edo period or later, (unless it's in Shin-Gunto mounts) the chances it was ever used to kill are quite low. And even if it's Koto, remember that the primary killers on a Japanese battlefield back then would have been Bow and arrows, Yari and Naginata, or towards the later period, Tanegashima (matchlock muskets). Swords were usually secondary weapons. 

 

A blade in Shin-Gunto mounts makes the kill probability higher, as WW2-era Japanese officers were rather keen on "testing" their blades, usually on the necks of helpless prisoners. But if your blade is coming out of Japan, the previous owner may never have been deployed overseas. 

 

This will sound "Hippy-Dippy", but hey, I'm from California... If your wife is that concerned, you can burn some sage or incense next to the blade while playing some Japanese Temple Music or Mantras via YouTube and such. Just a little karmic cleansing to smooth things over if the blade's Kami is a little shook by the move from good ol' Nippon to the Lone Star State. I do it with all my blades. 

[Scogg]

Sounds like our wives might get along 

 

Personally, I believe any weapon, especially one with an unknown history; deserves respect as a potential "death dealer." It can be tough to convince someone, especially a partner, that a blade has “never seen blood.”

I usually explain to my wife that it’s impossible to know the full backstory of any weapon. It might have taken a life, but now that it's in my hands, I treat it with the utmost respect and care.

In my experience, especially with the “hippy-dippy” types, intention matters a lot. Framing it as a tool you're honoring and caring for can make all the difference.

(For context: I live in Oregon; beautiful, green, and the land of tree huggers. )
 

Anyway, here’s a thread I started a while back in the Izakaya. Might be worth a read, or even something to show your wives.

 

 

[Alex A]

You see quite a few Koto Katana/tachi chopped off to make shorter wakizashi.

 

Not talking about suriage blades, as in Edo sword length regulations.

 

Swords salvaged from broken swords.

 

Chances are they were broken in a battle/fight?, but you will never know for sure.

 

[Cola]

On 7/8/2025 at 5:27 PM, Alex A said:

You see quite a few Koto Katana/tachi chopped off to make shorter wakizashi.

 

Not talking about suriage blades, as in Edo sword length regulations.

 

Swords salvaged from broken swords.

 

Chances are they were broken in a battle/fight?, but you will never know for sure.

 

 

Maybe broken in a fight, or maybe because a noble samurai guy tried to whack a dog with the backside of the sword, or perhaps because a young samurai thought it a good idea to test his sword out on a stone garden ornament. 

[Alex A]

I suppose the flaw Shinae is also an indicator.

 

Lines/ripples in a blade where a bent blade was straightened.

 

I can only ever remember seeing this flaw once and that was on a blade in the sales section here many years ago, that was a Koto sword.

[Jacques]

Many swords that have come down to us were never used in combat; those that cost the equivalent of a family's food for a century to make were often kept and passed on as gifts, or handed down from generation to generation.

[2devnul]

1 hour ago, Jacques said:

Many swords that have come down to us were never used in combat; those that cost the equivalent of a family's food for a century to make were often kept and passed on as gifts, or handed down from generation to generation.

 

As much as I dislike @Jacques comments in general I must agree on that. Majority of swords that exists today weren't used in battles, and if did, then they weren't used to fight with. Have you seen what happens to a sword when it meets another blade/armor? There are some with Kirikomi (if we trust they are original and not 'added'), yes, but encounter/duel is not a battle. Not to mention that (except maybe for generals or Daymio) you wouldn't want to destroy expensive sword while you can bring a cheap/one-time only piece. 

 

How about 'blood sword'? We can only speculate. In theory blade won't suffer even if you cut off someone's head or split them in half (spine included). But I've seen swords getting bend on Tatami ...

 

Anyway, I fully understand wives attitude as I have very similar perception at home

 

 

[Cola]

1 hour ago, 2devnul said:

 

Not to mention that (except maybe for generals or Daymio) you wouldn't want to destroy expensive sword while you can bring a cheap/one-time only piece. 

 

 

I wouldn't want to wreck the family heriloom sword, but if my life depended on it, I would take the risk over using a cheap alternative. 

 

In any case I personally feel more concerned with WWII blades having been used in war crimes, just because of the scale and the fact that soldiers were probably less afraid of wrecking an arsenal sword. 

[George KN]

Hmm, I've often wondered about this subject myself. As others have said, unless there is obvious battle damage or provenance, we can never really know what a blade has been used for. However, you can tell a lot about the smith and other craftsman's intention for a blade, which I suppose you could use to help frame a story for your wife?

 

For example I get good vibes from my mumei Shinto katana. It was likely made in a more peaceful era, has an active hamon (suggesting artistic intent), and a nice koshirae with both swallows and ho-ho (phoenix) suggesting to me freedom and rebirth (yes, it is my profile picture):

I doubt many people would have too many problems with a sword if it clearly had intentions other than just combat?

Wartime blades I'd argue are more neutral, because while they were often forged for WW2 specifically, everyone knew that rifles and artillery were really doing the frontline killing then (the killing of prisoners not withstanding). I mean heck, how much use were they really expecting from the kai gunto whilst on board a ship? So I tend to think of them more as national status symbol rather than just as a killing weapon, although yes, many were used in atrocious war crimes.

 

Now... On the other end of the scale are survivors like this:

 

Shinogi-zukuri, light in your hand, razor sharp, strong sori, real age to it. This thing has been made to cut flesh like butter. It might help if it had a koshirae, but at the moment nothing about it suggests artistic intent, and it has seen many polishes because of how thin it is compared to the nakago. Whether that has been simply because of its age, or because it's been used and consequently needing repolishing, I don't know. But it's safe to say even I'm not a big fan of it  - I keep thinking it's going to try and take one of my fingers if I'm not careful when handling.

 

So that sort of thing you might struggle with the framing... (Sorry guys about wheeling out the same pics I've put on other threads, but thought it was a relevant example).

Maybe some pics or further details of the sword you're waiting for @MEENag might help us suggest a way you could sell it to those that are a bit nervous of having them in the house? (Maybe the sword has even arrived by now?)

[MEENag]

Thanks for all of the replies so far. There have been many quite interesting posts so far.  My overall takeaway, and what I’ll relay to my wife,  is that it is very unlikely my sword has ever seen real action.  My friends, on the other hand,  might get a “it’s pretty old, so you never know”. 

@George KN

Here is my sword:

https://sword-auction.com/en/product/27099/as24845-katana-mumeichiyozurunbthk-hozon-token/
 

I still haven’t received word that the export permit has been received so it is probably still at least 2 weeks away. The “Question about an Aoi listing” thread I started has some more details on my shopping journey. 

[Mister Gunto]

Very nice blade!

 

My two most recent swords bought from Japanese sellers both took exactly 3 weeks to get the export permission, then 1-2 weeks shipping time. 

 

 

[MEENag]

I was just informed that my export permit was approved! It took 5 weeks. I expect it will be another 2 weeks before I receive it. 

[George KN]

Congrats! And that does look like a really nice blade! With fittings like that I think it would be very hard for anyone to argue it is "just" a weapon   

[Jacques]

I hope i'm wrong but i don't like that :

 

[Scogg]

I think it’s just an artifact from the lighting. We all know how challenging it is to photograph boshi. 
 

Looks like a lot to enjoy, 

Congrats

 

 

[MEENag]

It’s not as much fun when the dark cloud that is @Jacques is hovering over you. I kid, I kid.