Borneo Sword

[Phil D]

I have a sword from the Japanese Surrender of Borneo.

Could someone help with it's translation please.

Phil 

[John C]

Phil:

My guess would be Kanetatsu, however I am not a translator so wait for confirmation.

 

John C.

[xiayang]

1 hour ago, John C said:

My guess would be Kanetatsu, however I am not a translator so wait for confirmation.

 

John is correct:

 

兼松兼達 = Kanematsu Kanetatsu

[Phil D]

2 hours ago, xiayang said:

 

John is correct:

 

兼松兼達 = Kanematsu Kanetatsu

Thanks guys, much appreciate your knowledge.

I forgot to mention it has a Seki stamp as well.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Hi Phil, can you please show photos of the mounts? You say it was surrendered on Borneo, is there supporting documents or a story about the circumstances of surrender? 

[Phil D]

23 hours ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

Hi Phil, can you please show photos of the mounts? You say it was surrendered on Borneo, is there supporting documents or a story about the circumstances of surrender? 

 

[Phil D]

Yes, my mates uncle was on the ship that the Japanese surrendered on,the HMAS Burdekin.

He watched Admiral Kamada surrender.

I have personal photos to prove.

[Bruce Pennington]

Phil,

A couple of requests, if not too much trouble - Is that tassel all brown, or a faded blue/brown?  Also, could I get a photo of the Seki stamp or of the full nakago showing the stamp?  I assume no date on the other side?

[PNSSHOGUN]

Hi Phil, that's fantastic. Did this sword come from that surrender, or at another time? It's a bit sad that many of these swords no longer have the story and documents with them, glad you are helping him with it.

 

The Kai Gunto Rear Admiral Kamada surrendered on HMAS Burdekin is in the Australian War Memorial. It's noted as having a 15th century blade and Tsuba. It's not currently on display, but the access number is AWM 20323.

[Phil D]

17 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Phil,

A couple of requests, if not too much trouble - Is that tassel all brown, or a faded blue/brown?  Also, could I get a photo of the Seki stamp or of the full nakago showing the stamp?  I assume no date on the other side?

No worries.

All brown mate.

 

[Phil D]

All I know is he was on the ship on the day of surrender and he came home with this sword.

May have to do some more digging with older relatives.

 

[vajo]

The condition of the koshirae looks like 80 years lying in a wet garage or cellar. I bet the blade doesn't look not better.  

[Phil D]

7 hours ago, vajo said:

The condition of the koshirae looks like 80 years lying in a wet garage or cellar. I bet the blade doesn't look not better.  

Your a genius mate

[Bruce Pennington]

22 hours ago, Phil D said:

All brown mate

Thanks Phil, and thanks for the additional photos.  The all brown tassel tells us the sword was carried by a Gunzoku, the civilian branch of the Army.

[Phil D]

6 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Thanks Phil, and thanks for the additional photos.  The all brown tassel tells us the sword was carried by a Gunzoku, the civilian branch of the Army.

Thanks for that Bruce.

Is the sword worth restoration, I'm going to Japan in October or can it be done in Australia.

Phil 

[Bruce Pennington]

4 hours ago, Phil D said:

worth restoration

That's a personal decision.  The sword was 'free', so the $2,000+ polish plus what you spend on fittings, will put it close to $3,000 invested.  You'll not sell it for that much money, so monetarily, it's not "worth" the restoration.  But for a family heirloom, the price won't matter, if one has the budget to do so.  They are quite beautiful when restored.

[vajo]

5 hours ago, Phil D said:

Thanks for that Bruce.

Is the sword worth restoration, I'm going to Japan in October or can it be done in Australia.

Phil 

 

You can't go with that sword to Japan for polish. Its a showato gunto.

[Phil D]

 

 

9 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

That's a personal decision.  The sword was 'free', so the $2,000+ polish plus what you spend on fittings, will put it close to $3,000 invested.  You'll not sell it for that much money, so monetarily, it's not "worth" the restoration.  But for a family heirloom, the price won't matter, if one has the budget to do so.  They are quite beautiful when restored.

Thanks for that Bruce, that's great information much appreciated.

While I have your attention,I have my own personal WW2

Sword that i picked up at an auction some years ago.

It has quite a story, I noticed it had nine deliberately cut notches in the handle, I thought they would off been done by the original owner.

After a few phone calls I eventually got the sword tested and examined at the Metals Department of the University of NSW.

Turns out it's an authentic WW2 era sword but the notches were made from an individual who had taken the sword from the original owner and notched it.

They said probably an allied soldier, that makes sense as the sword was from a deceased estate.

Could you elaborate if possible please.

Phill

 

[Phil D]

1 hour ago, Phil D said:

 

 

Thanks for that Bruce, that's great information much appreciated.

While I have your attention,I have my own personal WW2

Sword that i picked up at an auction some years ago.

It has quite a story, I noticed it had nine deliberately cut notches in the handle, I thought they would off been done by the original owner.

After a few phone calls I eventually got the sword tested and examined at the Metals Department of the University of NSW.

Turns out it's an authentic WW2 era sword but the notches were made from an individual who had taken the sword from the original owner and notched it.

They said probably an allied soldier, that makes sense as the sword was from a deceased estate.

Could you elaborate if possible please.

Phill

 

PS

Handle is blank, no writing.

[John C]

Phill:

Are there any similar notches on the end of the habaki? Sometimes we see this as roman numeral assembly marks.

 

John C.

[Phil D]

3 hours ago, John C said:

Phill:

Are there any similar notches on the end of the habaki? Sometimes we see this as roman numeral assembly marks.

 

John C.

No mate.

[vajo]

Show the whole blade without habaki. This partial details say nothing.

The three nakago ana makes no sense on a wartime blade. It indicates often an older blade. 

In older times the nakago filemarks where used to mark owner for sword and koshirae during assembling. 

 

 

[Shugyosha]

Hi Phil,

It's a bit of a vague memory but I recall that sometimes notches were added to the tang to help the tsuka grip - I can't remember where I have this idea from so apply a suitable amount of skepticism.

 

Alternatively and more likely, as Chris says, the condition of the tang (the patina and the additional peg holes) suggests an older blade that has been shortened, in which case it might have been damage to what was the actual blade itself from use way back when and whoever did the shortening simply didn't go to the trouble of removing it.

 

 

[Phil D]

2 hours ago, Shugyosha said:

Hi Phil,

It's a bit of a vague memory but I recall that sometimes notches were added to the tang to help the tsuka grip - I can't remember where I have this idea from so apply a suitable amount of skepticism.

 

Alternatively and more likely, as Chris says, the condition of the tang (the patina and the additional peg holes) suggests an older blade that has been shortened, in which case it might have been damage to what was the actual blade itself from use way back when and whoever did the shortening simply didn't go to the trouble of removing it.

 

Thanks for the reply mate.

Metal has been tested with the latest machinery in the world, it's WW2.

 

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

Can we see the rest of the sword and mounts?

[GeorgeLuucas]

On 4/21/2024 at 7:21 PM, Phil D said:

Your a genius mate

… You’re* .
And Vajo is very knowledgable. 
 

For what it’s worth, the second nakago you shared with the notches does not look like any WW2 Arsenal blade I’ve ever seen.
 

If the test results and conclusion are accurate, then I’d be suspicious that someone after the war added artificial patina, more mekugi-ana, altered the nakagojiri and probably created those notches in the process. In an attempt to make the nakago look like one from a much older sword. 
 

Seeing the whole sword, and nakago in better lighting would help others confirm or deny those suspicions and offer better input.
 

Best of luck,

-Sam

[Phil D]

2 hours ago, GeorgeLuucas said:

… You’re* .
And Vajo is very knowledgable. 
 

For what it’s worth, the second nakago you shared with the notches does not look like any WW2 Arsenal blade I’ve ever seen.
 

If the test results and conclusion are accurate, then I’d be suspicious that someone after the war added artificial patina, more mekugi-ana, altered the nakagojiri and probably created those notches in the process. In an attempt to make the nakago look like one from a much older sword. 
 

Seeing the whole sword, and nakago in better lighting would help others confirm or deny those suspicions and offer better input.
 

Best of luck,

-Sam

Have sent photos of sword and handle mate.

It's all I have of it.

Thanks 

Phil 

 

[vajo]

Looks like a bad treated and buffed shinto waki. I don't think the neutron tomography is very helpfull to examine a sword. And btw they didn't say it is from ww2. They say its core made like swords from ww2. 

[Shugyosha]

Phil,

Sorry, didn't read the whole of the thread so I must be a genius too.

 

If it isn't a traditionally made/ ancestral blade then it has been dressed up to look like one so it's either a WW2 era blade that's been dicked with or it's a modern copy that has been made to deceive. Just to be clear, you have a tsuka (not necessarily belonging to the blade) and the blade with the habaki but no scabbard? Did you have it carbon dated too otherwise it's a bit of a leap of faith to conclude that the blade itself is WW2.

[Phil D]

3 hours ago, Shugyosha said:

Phil,

Sorry, didn't read the whole of the thread so I must be a genius too.

 

If it isn't a traditionally made/ ancestral blade then it has been dressed up to look like one so it's either a WW2 era blade that's been dicked with or it's a modern copy that has been made to deceive. Just to be clear, you have a tsuka (not necessarily belonging to the blade) and the blade with the habaki but no scabbard? Did you have it carbon dated too otherwise it's a bit of a leap of faith to conclude that the blade itself is WW2.

It's exactly as I got it, no other parts.

Thanks for your opinion and time John.