V & A MASAMUNE BLADE (?) - AUTHENTICITY ?????

[stackinnutts]

Anyone had a chance to examine this blade in person? Thoughts on it?

 

https://collections....d-scabbard-masamune/

 

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Am I correct that they are saying this is a Masamune blade?  I see that on one side, but what is written above the kao on the other side?  The kao is different than the Masamune I have on file.

 

One on file:

[Gakusee]

Several of us have seen it 

[DoTanuki yokai]

Bruce if you expand the description you would find this 

"The hilt has on one side of the blade the gold inlaid signature of Masamune and on the other side the gold inlaid

signature and monogram of a member of the Hon’ami family of sword appraisers, who attributed the blade to Masamune."

 

 

[stackinnutts]

1 hour ago, Gakusee said:

Several of us have seen it 

Gakusee, any thoughts on it?

[lonely panet]

Paul Martin us to work at the V&A i think. He cound know

[Gakusee]

1 hour ago, lonely panet said:

Paul Martin us to work at the V&A i think. He cound know

No, he did not. He worked at the BM

[Gakusee]

2 hours ago, stackinnutts said:

Gakusee, any thoughts on it?

Big Jimmy in Antarctica, my name is in my signature:)

By the way, why are you asking about that blade and how did you come across it? It is not well publicised or too widely known….

 

It is a very good Soshu den sword with very interesting activities and promise. It could be a Shizu or something of that ilk or even Masamune depending on polish. 
It bears a Kojo (one of most reputed Honami judges) kinzogan, but that kinzogan is a bit different from the typical Kojo kinzogan. To paraphrase Tanobe sensei, “it needs further study”. As far as I know, the sword has not been to Japan for shinsa. 
 

From our old records: 

 

Nagasa: 72.0 cm Moto-haba: 3.1 cm Saki-haba: 2.0 cm
Sugata: Hon-zukuri, a graceful tori-zori, chu-kissaki, mitsu-mune.
Jihada: A prominent and flowing itame-hada with mokume and abundant ji-nie forming chikei.
Hamon: Fine nie-deki, notare-midare with some gunome like inclusions, profuse sunagaeshi which spills over
into the ji in places and kinsuji. The boshi is slightly midare-komi with very little kaeri.
Horimono: A bo-hi on both sides that finishes in the nakago between the two mekugi-ana.
Nakago: Suriage by probably 3 or 4 cm and machi-okuri, 2 mekugi-ana. Kiri-jiri, faint kiri yasurime are just
visible and the bo-hi finishes in a pointed end. There is kin-zogan mei on the sashi-omote MASAMUNE and on the sashi-ura HON-A with kao [KOJO].

This sword has a robust sugata that retains its elegance in spite of the suriage. Both the hamon and the jihada reflect the nie dominant hataraki, which together with the large itame- mokume- hada and mitsu- mune, associate the sword with old Soshu- den. The shape is both graceful and strong whilst the bo- hi provide the
sword with a balance that makes it very easy to handle. It is in fine condition and all details are easy to see.
Previously it was the property of Alfred Dobree, an active collector in the early 20th century, who donated it to the Victoria & Albert Museum in London.

 

[stackinnutts]

2 hours ago, Gakusee said:

Big Jimmy in Antarctica, my name is in my signature:)

By the way, why are you asking about that blade and how did you come across it? It is not well publicised or too widely known….

 

It is a very good Soshu den sword with very interesting activities and promise. It could be a Shizu or something of that ilk or even Masamune depending on polish. 
It bears a Kojo (one of most reputed Honami judges) kinzogan, but that kinzogan is a bit different from the typical Kojo kinzogan. To paraphrase Tanobe sensei, “it needs further study”. As far as I know, the sword has not been to Japan for shinsa. 
 

From our old records: 

 

Nagasa: 72.0 cm Moto-haba: 3.1 cm Saki-haba: 2.0 cm
Sugata: Hon-zukuri, a graceful tori-zori, chu-kissaki, mitsu-mune.
Jihada: A prominent and flowing itame-hada with mokume and abundant ji-nie forming chikei.
Hamon: Fine nie-deki, notare-midare with some gunome like inclusions, profuse sunagaeshi which spills over
into the ji in places and kinsuji. The boshi is slightly midare-komi with very little kaeri.
Horimono: A bo-hi on both sides that finishes in the nakago between the two mekugi-ana.
Nakago: Suriage by probably 3 or 4 cm and machi-okuri, 2 mekugi-ana. Kiri-jiri, faint kiri yasurime are just
visible and the bo-hi finishes in a pointed end. There is kin-zogan mei on the sashi-omote MASAMUNE and on the sashi-ura HON-A with kao [KOJO].

This sword has a robust sugata that retains its elegance in spite of the suriage. Both the hamon and the jihada reflect the nie dominant hataraki, which together with the large itame- mokume- hada and mitsu- mune, associate the sword with old Soshu- den. The shape is both graceful and strong whilst the bo- hi provide the
sword with a balance that makes it very easy to handle. It is in fine condition and all details are easy to see.
Previously it was the property of Alfred Dobree, an active collector in the early 20th century, who donated it to the Victoria & Albert Museum in London.

 

Thanks for responding! Much appreciated; I ran across it because it was mentioned ( in an interview with a V&A curator) in a old documentary on Masamune; and I didn’t know such a sword was in the V&A collection. 

[lonely panet]

4 hours ago, Gakusee said:

No, he did not. He worked at the BM

Oh sorry. Got my bm and va crossed up

[Bruce Pennington]

18 hours ago, DoTanuki yokai said:

on the other side the gold inlaid

signature and monogram of a member of the Hon’ami family of sword appraisers, who attributed the blade to Masamune

How interesting.  An appraiser with a kao.  Thanks Christian!

[Gakusee]

53 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

How interesting.  An appraiser with a kao.  Thanks Christian!

 

Bruce, I recommend you buy the Sesko e-book about the Honami family and read about that tradition of appraising and evaluating Japanese swords. It will help you understand how Japanese swords were viewed not only as weapons (as gunto were) but as spiritual objects, historical objects (the regalia passed down from Japanese deities), repositories of value (swords were given “gold coin” evaluations), elements signifying caste belonging, weapons, prizes and accolades  for outstanding military feats of heroism, etc. 

[Apercus]

Nice to see the photos. The display I saw at the V & A museum was dark and afforded no real view of anything.

[Gakusee]

4 hours ago, Apercus said:

Nice to see the photos. The display I saw at the V & A museum was dark and afforded no real view of anything.

However that blade is not on display. It needs to be requested. 

[Apercus]

It was quit a few years ago

[stackinnutts]

4 hours ago, Gakusee said:

However that blade is not on display. It needs to be requested. 

Why not display it (?); pride of place! 

[Deiro]

22 minutes ago, stackinnutts said:

Why not display it (?); pride of place! 

it most likely is due conservation. I know several ww2 vehicles, despite their significance of being the last examples are not on display either.

I am not really aware on how museums maintain their blades but having them open on display does not seem to be the best.

[Tsuku]

On 4/8/2024 at 10:26 AM, Bruce Pennington said:

Am I correct that they are saying this is a Masamune blade?  I see that on one side, but what is written above the kao on the other side?  The kao is different than the Masamune I have on file.

 

@Bruce Pennington — by the way, the V&A blade you posted looks like a 本阿弥光忠 Hon'ami Kōjō kaō, as Michael said.

 

The second one you posted I think is one of the Jūyō Bunkazai, and the kinzogan-mei is definitely 本阿弥光徳 Hon'ami Kōtoku, as his kaō is very distinctive. Kōtoku is, I believe, the first Hon'ami judge we have attributions from; he is extremely well-regarded, and his surviving attributions are very rare.

[SteveM]

 

11 hours ago, Tsuku said:

本阿弥光忠 Hon'ami Kōjō

Typo, I think. 

Kōjō should be 光常.

[Tsuku]

4 hours ago, SteveM said:

 

Typo, I think. 

Kōjō should be 光常.

 

You’re of course completely correct, my typo. Sorry about that.

[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks guys!  Quite an education on the Ho'nami line of appraisers.  Didn't know they existed.  Now I'll have to add something about them in the Stamps doc, since these are on blades, and correct the post I have where I called one a "Masamune."