Is this a sword made by Kanesade in Seki in 1670?

[Fusilier]

G'day,  I purchased two swords off a relative of Lt Gordon Harvey of the 42nd Battalion, 2AIF about 10 years ago.  When I brought them they were both labeled and this one was marked as having been made by Kanesada in 1670 in Seki.  I was planning to sell it and was hoping someone might be able to confirm or correct the attribution.  The sword mounts are in 'as found' condition.  The Tsuka is little more than a relic and the Saya is plain lacquered wood. Thanks in advance to anyone who can assist.  Cheers

[Bugyotsuji]

Hi David,

Gives me a crick in the neck!  I fired up the mobile so I could look at that the right way up, and it does say Seki Ju Kane.... sada(?) the last character is poorly written for some reason, halfway between 足 and 定(?). If you have a firm date like that of 1670, then it must be written on the other side of the nakago, no?

[Fusilier]

16 minutes ago, Bugyotsuji said:

Hi David,

Gives me a crick in the neck!  I fired up the mobile so I could look at that the right way up, and it does say Seki Ju Kane.... sada(?) the last character is poorly written for some reason, halfway between 足 and 定(?). If you have a firm date like that of 1670, then it must be written on the other side of the nakago, no?

Thanks Mate, There is nothing on the other side of the Nakago so I assume whoever made the attribution must have determined the date in some other way or that bit of information is incorrect.  The fella I brought it from said that Lt Harvey had picked up both swords in Buna, New Guinea so I did think that it might be a Showa era blade as opposed to the earlier date, which was why I wanted to try and get some confirmation.  I'm sorry about you're neck, I won't offer to rub it better !!

[PNSSHOGUN]

Pity about the mounts, blade looks to be 'OK' at least. Well we might as see the other sword while you're at it.

[Fusilier]

G'day John, I'll dig it out of its storage box at some point and take some photo's.  Its in much better overall condition so I reckon I'll keep hold of that one.

[Fusilier]

G'day again Piers, This is the other side of the Nakago, I can't see anything on there.  If its the Showa era Kanesane, would that be Asano Kanesane and his East Asia Sword Company.  I did a quick search and came up with this info; https://nihontoantiq...ct/kanezane-fss-785/. Given the absence of the kokuin at the tip of the nakago, mentioned in the online article, would I be correct in assuming this was made by one of his junior smiths?

[PNSSHOGUN]

Can safely say it isn't the Showa Kanesane, this does appear to be a fair bit older. There were a large number of Kanesada smiths from Seki, from the shape of this sword the 1670's date seems about right.

[Fusilier]

I'm seriously impressed John, just for my education, what about the shape of the sword tells you that?  or do I just need to spend years learning from a master !!

[PNSSHOGUN]

No, nothing like that is needed. Here is a handy chart that details the general shifts in style of Japanese swords over the years:

 

https://www.Japanese...com/sugata/shape.htm

 

 

[Fusilier]

Cheers John, Never too old to learn, thank you.

[ROKUJURO]

David,

as Piers tried to tell you, any markings on the NAKAGO are easier to read for us if you showed the photos in the correct orientation, that is vertically, tip upwards.>

And there seems to be some confusion; are you talking about KANESADA, KANEZANE, or KANESANE?

The blade's shape hints indeed to the early EDO period, it is typical for the KANBUN era. 

[Stephen]

[DTM72]

There were multiple generations of Kanesada from Seki (Mino). https://nihontoclub....a=All&school_nid=All

Shodai (1st generation) worked in 1469-1487. The Nidai (2nd generation) had a specific way he wrote the Sada character which the picture above does not match. So, you are left with the shodai, sandai (3rd) and all the generations following. A guide to help you figure out which generation you have, can be found at the following link. https://www.sho-shin.com/kanesada.html 

Best way of knowing for sure is submitting for shinsa.

Following the nihontoclub link above, the closest Kanesada to the dates you expected is KAN2094 (1624-1644) KAN533 uses a different Kane character so he does not apply. 

My opinion is that yours may be KAN2041 (1555-1573) <-- very loose opinion based only on pics of the nakago.

 

Wishing you the best.

[Fusilier]

10 hours ago, ROKUJURO said:

David,

as Piers tried to tell you, any markings on the NAKAGO are easier to read for us if you showed the photos in the correct orientation, that is vertically, tip upwards.>

And there seems to be some confusion; are you talking about KANESADA, KANEZANE, or KANESANE?

The blade's shape hints indeed to the early EDO period, it is typical for the KANBUN era. 

G'day Jean, In future I'll try and ensure I get the photography sorted and the characters the right way up.  Thanks to the all the advice on here, it looks like its an early Edo blade and was forged by Kanesada from Seki (Mino) and Dan has given me a loose attribution that it might be KAN2041.  If that is correct then I need to work out if that makes it Muromachi Era, Koto period which the online guide appears to indicate. https://www.Japanese...index.com/period.htm. Cheers David

[Fusilier]

3 hours ago, DTM72 said:

There were multiple generations of Kanesada from Seki (Mino). https://nihontoclub....a=All&school_nid=All

Shodai (1st generation) worked in 1469-1487. The Nidai (2nd generation) had a specific way he wrote the Sada character which the picture above does not match. So, you are left with the shodai, sandai (3rd) and all the generations following. A guide to help you figure out which generation you have, can be found at the following link. https://www.sho-shin.com/kanesada.html 

Best way of knowing for sure is submitting for shinsa.

Following the nihontoclub link above, the closest Kanesada to the dates you expected is KAN2094 (1624-1644) KAN533 uses a different Kane character so he does not apply. 

My opinion is that yours may be KAN2041 (1555-1573) <-- very loose opinion based only on pics of the nakago.

 

Wishing you the best.

G'day Dan,  Thanks for that mate, I really appreciate you taking the time to do that, at least I can give any prospective buyer a starting point if he (or she) wants to investigate the swords provenance in greater depth.  have a good one, cheers David