unusual SUKASHI TSUBA

[ROKUJURO]

Gentlemen,

a while back I acquired a TSUBA that is a riddle to me. It makes a solid impression at 80 x 79 x 4,5 mm, but the decoration is superfine and even difficult to see - a bit like fingerprints with a tiny HOSOKAWA KAMON in the middle. One could also think of a ZEN garden with raked gravel, seen from a distance.

I cannot imagine the technique it was made in, and I have no clue about school, maker or age. Does someone have an idea they would be kind enough to share?

[1kinko]

Tedious (maybe that’s why it’s so faint) hand done “engine turning” with an edged protractor before it was  cut, plus a little nanako.

[reinhard]

The famous Hosokawa-Mon is always consisting of nine round luminaries.

A bigger one in the middle and eight smaller ones circling around it.

Not one more, not one less.

 

reinhard

[ROKUJURO]

Thank you Reinhard!

I should have written "HOSOKAWA style" KAMON.

[Spartancrest]

Hi Jean, I get a strong Heianjo 'vibe' from it - maybe just the swirls, though yours look concentric. Is that ten-zogan in the centres? [ I am probably way off!]

 

[ROKUJURO]

Interesting idea Dale,

which I did not think of. I have a HEIANJO TSUBA with fine spirals, but these are indeed concentric rings, and on this TSUBA there is no brass involved - all steel. As I said, it is an enigmatic TSUBA!

[Spartancrest]

5 hours ago, ROKUJURO said:

an enigmatic TSUBA!

That is for sure! I can't say I have ever seen one exactly like it, not run of the mill. 

[Spartancrest]

On 5/3/2023 at 10:26 PM, ROKUJURO said:

Does someone have an idea they would be kind enough to share?

Still no idea what school but the tsuba is not a "one off" There are differences but I would say the same artist did this one. The concentric circle motif is the same right down to the dots in the middle.

https://www.jauce.com/auction/w1058682590  or  https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/w1058682590

[ROKUJURO]

Dale,

thank you very much! How did you find that one? It has more decoration, but the basic work is indeed very close to mine!

(Have you ever considered working for a secret service? No one and nothing can hide from you!) 

[GRC]

Jean, I like your "Zen garden, raked gravel" themed tsuba. Very nicely detailed work 

I imagine it must have some interesting effects with light and shadows at different angles?

 

...and of course Dale manages to find a comparable 

 

Does Tasmania have a secret service?

Dale, maybe you could opt to do that remotely... everyone seems to prefer that option these days 

But Jean's right, Dale would definitely be a good addition.

[Spartancrest]

8 hours ago, GRC said:

Does Tasmania have a secret service?

If Tasmania has a secret service, they are hidden pretty well! - We are lucky to get ANY service being at the literal bottom of the country and the priority list!

[Although the Prime Minister has "gifted" Hobart with 250 million dollars to pay for a 750 million dollar Football stadium - [Yeah they better get that estimate in writing because it will double by the time they finish!] More than half the state don't want it and Tassie can't afford to maintain it in the long run - all so we can have a team in the Aussie rules football, that half the country doesn't even play! - Yeah I will put my soap box away now 

8 hours ago, GRC said:

opt to do that remotely.

Yes that is how I find these things - I sit in a chair in a darkened room and let my mind wander the ether, past the Kremlin firewalls and into the Russian super computer that holds all the secrets - Remote Viewing taught to me by the CIA - It doesn't seem to work if I turn my computer off though? 

[PS. State secret but my eyes are actually brown!] 

[ROKUJURO]

18 hours ago, GRC said:

....I like your "Zen garden, raked gravel" themed tsuba. Very nicely detailed work 

I imagine it must have some interesting effects with light and shadows at different angles?....

In fact it has only a small effect as the concentric rings are super-fine - almost like the grooves on a vinyl record. I am still curious how they were made.

[Larason2]

My understanding of the grooves like this is that they are all a sort of yasurime. In this case, the tip of a very fine file.

[Spartancrest]

21 hours ago, ROKUJURO said:

the concentric rings are super-fine

Amazing work when it comes down to it, I think it is far more difficult to do than carving a figure - one slip and the effect is ruined. Truly a technique of great skill.

 

I wonder if the work is related to these "record" tsuba that have the whole surface done in concentric circles. I even ran into a "square" version last week.

[ROKUJURO]

Dale,

that may indeed be related work! Thank you! 

[Bugyotsuji]

Nothing to do with the price of fish, but Dale’s tsuba above reminds me of one I saw recently. I enquired about buying it, but an artisan friend warned me off it. “It’s new!” he whispered.

 

 

[Matsunoki]

13 minutes ago, Bugyotsuji said:

It’s new!” he whispered.

Blimey Piers, that’s scary. Just looking at one image, the workmanship looks skilled and old. Was it “proper” brass inlay?

[Bugyotsuji]

It was under glass so I didn't ask them to open it, but yes, scary was the word I was looking for.  The shinchu inlay looked properly done. There were a couple of others too. I did wonder if some old tsuba had maybe been redecorated...(?).

[Matsunoki]

Simply from its appearance and having had another close look  I really struggle to believe that this is new. However the design is not something I’ve seen the like of before (not that that means a lot!) 

[Bugyotsuji]

In fer a penny, in fer a pound.

“These two also”, he said!?!?!?

Aaaarrrrgggghhhh… and I felt like a schoolchild. What? Where? How?

 

 

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

The other possibility, which I had not considered until now as he is a sort of friend, is that he also had stuff to sell, and maybe he wanted to put me off using my cash on any of these above. (?)

[Matsunoki]

Well Piers, more confusion.
Looking at the first of these two pieces, the radiating sukashi is very uneven but that unevenness does actually  follow a rhythmic undulating pattern and could be perfectly deliberate…..or just bad workmanship. Again it doesn’t look new and has taken some time and effort and skill to make.

 

The second one employs a very similar inlay design technique to the original piece but the iron looks old and genuine. 
So, maybe later inlay into earlier plain tsuba as you say? 

 

…….or maybe your suspicions re your “sort of friend” are correct🙂? A jealous rival dealer once pulled that trick on a customer of mine who was considering a purchase from me at a large Antique show. A very nice pristine Satsuma vase by Sozan for Kinkozan. In front of me he said to my client….”I think that vase has been cracked”……..it was mint perfect and he knew it. The client still bought it but the tricks people play hey?……… The dealer wisely avoided me forever after that.

 

We need some help here I think.

All the best. Colin

 

[Spartancrest]

2 hours ago, Bugyotsuji said:

reminds me of one I saw recently

 

Hitsu are different shape but the design is the same as the one you were looking at.

"Snow on bamboo"  If any of the tsuba are "new" the only one I would look at is the Saotome, the tagane-ato at the base of the nakago reminds me of the fake sekigane you sometimes see on cast guards - but it could be just tagane marks

 

Tsuba with bamboo leaves and semicircles (EAX.10121)   http://jameelcentre.ashmolean.org/collection/7/10237/10343

 

Round tsuba with half-wheels and bamboo leaves (EAX.10122)  http://jameelcentre.ashmolean.org/collection/7/10237/10343

 

[Matsunoki]

Dale to the rescue again!…..why am I not surprised🙂 

Snow on Bamboo - Yep I can see that now…..maybe in a Zen garden (raked stone circles?)

Brilliant spot re probable replaced spokes…..my money is on it being genuine/old. 
👍👍

 

[Spartancrest]

On 5/11/2023 at 9:26 PM, ROKUJURO said:

may indeed be related work!

 

On 5/11/2023 at 7:20 PM, Spartancrest said:

I even ran into a "square" version last week.

Well it took me some time but I finally ran the 'square' one to ground - not a perfect square of course - The technique doesn't really work in my opinion on that shape. https://www.jauce.com/auction/x1084932019  or   https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/x1084932019

[Bugyotsuji]

Check out 'ito-maki' bobbins for silk/cotton thread, Dale.

糸巻　鍔 - Bing images

 

ヤフオク! - 鐔・鍔 後代甚吾「糸巻図鐔」 鑑定書付 江戸時代 (yahoo.co.jp)

[Spartancrest]

Maybe Jean's tsuba represents silk spools seen end on? Without the modern branding of course!

[ROKUJURO]

Thank you a lot, this is an amazing design in my opinion and I wonder how it was done. Maybe I should ask Ford for that, he will know.

[rematron]

6 hours ago, ROKUJURO said:

Thank you a lot, this is an amazing design in my opinion and I wonder how it was done. Maybe I should ask Ford for that, he will know.

Agreed.  It's a fantastic tsuba.  I'd love to find one like it.

[Spartancrest]

7 hours ago, rematron said:

I'd love to find one like it.

This one is still doing the rounds!  https://www.jauce.com/auction/w1058682590   https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/w1058682590