Opinions on Hamon?

[Bruce Pennington]

Someone thought the Nihonto guys would be a good place to get some opinions on this hamon.  It's on a Mantetsu, so not nihonto, but the blade is attributed to Takanobu, who was the engineer in charge of over-all blade production for the SMR factory.  This is only the 2nd blade I've seen with his attribution on it (Takanobu quenched this), so if not gimei, it's a rare one (I don't own this, BTW, it's for sale on Buyee/Yahoo).

 

JP thought it struck him as Seki style hamon, which if true could help support the gimei idea, but it could simply mean that Takanobu got trained by a Seki smith.

 

Any thoughts?

[paulb]

Hi Bruce

I think JP is right it looks to have elements of early sanbonsugi which was originated made famous by the Seki smiths in the Kanemoto lineage. Later generations tended to make a more contrive pattern sticking to rigid 3 peaks grouped together but the earlier ones were more natural.

The Mino school had great influence on many other later schools so it is seen in a lot of Shinto and later work.

[vajo]

I love the shape. Its a nice Sword Bruce.

[lonely panet]

who elses thinks the mei is suspect?

few things put me off

[Bruce Pennington]

6 hours ago, Hamish said:

who elses thinks the mei is suspect?

few things put me off

Like what Hamish?

 

Don't know if this helps at all:

 

[lonely panet]

i dont like the ways its cut. to me the strokes look not of the ww2 period.

 

the mei lookls slightly sloppy and also abit gerish in a attempt to look like a mantetsu mei. poor layout and position on the nengo date is very odd for what normally is very well executed stanndard they held up.

 

just a comment, i have no skin in the game and infact dislike the over rated and over priced reputation they have attracted. so why would i pipe up on something i dont like if for not a concern ??

 

 

[roger dundas]

I know nothing, in fact less than nothing but would anyone go to that much trouble and effort to copy this mei-attribution ? And why bother. Just wondering.

Oh, it's the extra value.

Anyway I would be pleased to own it.

Roger j

[lonely panet]

because they sell for silly prices,  the last held DTI one was retailed at approx 5k usd from what i was told.

 

but these are jsut my opinions, none of us are experts, just expericed collectors. 

[roger dundas]

Thank you Hamish,  $5,000US is serious money for a not too long period of chiseling.      So that's where the word (chiseling) comes from?

 

Roger 2

[lonely panet]

hold off from forming a opinion, because of  mine. there are many other valued opinions that should be posted first before forming a outcome.

 

but the up and coming markets on gimei gendai and matetsu-to are about to flood the market IMHO, fleabay is the devils playground

 

 

 

[roger dundas]

Hamish- who ever your comment is aimed at, then fair enough and a fair warning to all of us. There is a similar issue with tosogu.

Roger j.

[Bruce Pennington]

6 hours ago, roger dundas said:

would anyone go to that much trouble and effort to copy this mei-attribution ?

Just to reinforce Hamish's answer.  Trystan (@BANGBANGSAN) brought this Chinese factory to our attention.  Gimei From China.  He's posted other pictures in other threads where you see the actual area of the factory a bit.  So, we have the Chinese faking Mantetsu now, plus I believe there is at least one guy in Japan taking mumei (unsigned) nihonto and faking Mantetsu mei on them to take a $1,000-2,000 sword and turn it into a $6,000 sword.  US prices on Mantetsu aren't quite that high, more in the $3,000 range, but that's what's going on. 

 

6 hours ago, Hamish said:

just a comment, i have no skin in the game and infact dislike the over rated and over priced reputation they have attracted. so why would i pipe up on something i dont like if for not a concern ??

I posted this here in hopes go gathering as many perspectives as possible to weigh the evidence.  Most of you guys have way more experience at seeing the reality of a blade than I do.  I appreciate your gut feel on this!

[dkirkpatrick]

Bruce; for what its worth I think its legit (assuming we can rule out a welded on nakago):  The yasurime seem simply too well executed to me and the mei seems to stand up against your examples.  Maybe there is a second question regarding the Takanobu tempering attribution.  From your pictures it looks like you have an example of one of these as well and although the resolution isn’t great it seems to be pretty close as well.  The value of Mantetsu discussion sounds best reserved for those more knowledgeable than me about their history and construction.  I reread the thread about the chinese fakes; mei quality still seems quite a ways off but it seems thet are making headway on some of the early geometry issues, scary stuff for sure.  If this is in fact gimei than I can see where collecting Taisho/Showa period swords is going to become increasingly challenging.   Thanks for bringing this interesting piece for discussion, I havent paid much attention to WW II manufactured swords but this has made me curious to understand more about this and Yasukuni-to, thank you.

 

Doug