Alternative to Urushi lacquer sought! etcetera....

[kusunokimasahige]

Hello all,

 

I am looking for an alternative to Urushi laquer, I am trying to restore a metal (not that old...) dou/gusoku, and also have some wooden things to be laquered. Yari pole (homemade for re-enactment) etcetera.

 

Since real Urishi is very expensive i am looking for a reasonable, less expensive alternative with about the same shine/consistency to it.

 

however, multiple layers sprayed on will also do.

 

does anyone on here know of such a paint alternative?

 

also I am looking for affordable himo, not nessecarily silk ones, to relace my armour.

 

any help is highly appreciated!

 

Kusunokimasahige

[trygve]

cashew lacquer is the next best thing. This is used in stead of urushi. Urushi is a very strong and poisening natural laquer and is forbidden in many countries. The cashew laquer is synthetic. Yoy can buy it on Fred Lohmans site, Shadowofleaves or

http://www.namikawa-ltd.co.jp/english/index.html.

 

good luck

 

trygve

[kusunokimasahige]

Thanx for the link!!!! it seems like a good shop!!

 

KM

[andreas]

http://www.dick.biz/

Looks like they got Urushi, take a look.

[kusunokimasahige]

expensive site, but great!!!

 

ill contact them too.... Urushiing my zunari kabuto of a few hundred years old will be costly i am afraid.....

 

ah well no rest for the wicked....

 

KM

[John A Stuart]

Hey Guys, Do not forget to check your import regulations before you order urushi. Some countries deny import. John

[Rich S]

And don't forget the uncured urushi is a close relative of poison ivy and very

toxic. Handle with extreme care.

 

Rich

[andreas]

Yes, handle with care, also import can be problem somewhere, i had it without a problem..(eu)

[kusunokimasahige]

we are so lucky!

 

ps i heard not everyone is allergic to urushi.....

 

:lol:

 

KM

[John A Stuart]

Hi KM, Everyone is allergic to urushi which comes from a type of poison oak. Some are more allergic than others. It causes nasty contact dermititis and can take months to heal. Some people are naturally hypersensitive and some can become hypersensitised after repeated exposure. The lucky ones get a rash that with treatment goes away after a few days. It can be nasty stuff. Check with a few sayashi that use it and ask how to handle its' use safely. I did an experiment with the active oils in poison ivy late 60's and got it on my leg, 6 months of treatment and no swimming that summer. Rough time. John

[kusunokimasahige]

Wow, that sounds nasty... in my filmwork i often work with resins and polymers for casting, so i am used to work with masks and gloves... shouldnt be a problem i think....

 

geez unbelievable you couldnt swim!

 

KM

[John A Stuart]

Hi KM, Doctors orders. I had weeping sores that required a salve applied 3 times a day to dry up the area and probably he thought might be washed away by swimming and an entry for infection. I probably became hypersensitised. John

[kusunokimasahige]

OUCH!!!!

 

i once had a small leg wound and continued swimming in the sea....

 

it looked gruesome after a while.. but healed remarkably well......

 

KM

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

OUCH!!!!

 

i once had a small leg wound and continued swimming in the sea....

 

it looked gruesome after a while.. but healed remarkably well......

 

KM

 

Depends on the wounds and the treatments. I had a wound from corals

in Seychelles. No more diving or swimming to maintain medicaments on place. I think I had a similar reaction to a different source...

[kusunokimasahige]

once on holiday i saw a moron try to impress a girl by diving into the sea, hands stretched out before him....... he als couldnt sim anymore.....

 

hands full of sea urchins needles........ very very OUCH......

 

ah well........ as long as its not a wound from re-sheathing a katana the wrong way and missing the saya.........

 

saw that happen once at a iaido seminar....... yaikes.........

 

anyway we are seemingly straying off topic......

 

:lol:

 

KM

[Ed]

There is a new treatment for the dermatalogic reaction to Urushi.

It is called "All Stop" and it is formulated to neutralize the urushi oils.

Read aout it here:

http://www.dermatechrx.com/poisonivy/?wcw=google&gclid=CO7q16zT94gCFSVtFQodsD23pg

[aeguy]

is very allergic to Urushiol; the very potent, irritating oil found in Poison Oak, Poison Ivy, Poison Sumac, Cashew Nut Husks, and Urushi Lacquer. Attempting to work with real urushi lacquer should not be undertaken lightly. The only people I've personally observed to have a robust tolerance to this exceptionally strong, naturally occurring irritant are those of Eastern Native American descent (i.e. Cherokee Indian, etc.).

Based upon what I've been told by folks who've actually worked with urushi lacquer, the urushiol level in this finish is far more concentrated than that found naturally occurring in any plant leaves, stems and roots. Considering this irritant is also an oil, a very small amount can go an incredibly long way and can cause a tremendous amount of misery and discomfort. Also, please keep in mind that since it is an oil, it can be easily spread and this strong irritant can not only affect you, but it can also affect those around you through unintentional contact (i.e. your spouse, children, friends, etc).

Over the years I've tried all sorts of concoctions to rid myself of the effects of my allergic reaction to urushiol, but I've only found (2) that I can guarantee will work:

(1) Avoid any and all contact with urushiol. Simple & effective.

(2) If you should come in contact with urushiol AND you experience a severe allergic reaction, immediately go to your physician and ask/beg for a shot of Prednisone to suppress your immune response. However, please beware your physician may refuse to give you this shot, and should she/he refuse this request, steel yourself for at least 2 to 3 more weeks of exceptional discomfort and inconvenience. If you're fortunate and you receive this shot, you'll immediately get some relief and it'll take 1 to 2 weeks for the rash to go away (depending upon the severity of your rash/allergic reaction).

I've never tried the remedy identified in the Ed's previous post, but suffice it to say I've also never found any over-the-counter remedy/treatment that offered folks similar to myself any significant relief. So before attempting to use urushi lacquer for the 1st time to refinish that saya that's needed rework since you purchased it, perform some basic research on how to best accomplish that goal while minimizing your exposure to the effects urushiol AND take the time & effort to identify your sensitivity to this potent natural irritant. Taking these steps will go a very long way in helping you avoid an uncomfortable and potentially debilitating allergic reaction. Sorry for the long winded response, but I thought it was worth the effort & bandwidth.... :|

 

Best Regards,

[Will G]

Mr. Guy's advice should be taken to heart and histamine response. Urushi and its main component urushiol is not to be taken lightly. Its toxicity is just as he dramatically describes. Further, it must be cured in a heated and humid environment--a feature of the finish that requires the construction of a special and sealed curing container. It is NOT for the casual finisher.

 

The best alternative I've found is pigmented polyurethane. Builds fast and polishes out well. Its also unavailable any more. Krylon and Rustoleum enamels are fine as long as you are prepared to be patient through applying and sanding about 15 coats (brushed, baby). That said, you can get some sweet results.

 

Another pro-woodworker friend I know, who was born, raised and apprenticed in Japan, got a nice fat tube of raw urushi sent to him by his brother back home. It was remarkably expensive, and the few small "experiments" he conducted in his own little corner of a good-sized commercial shop affected everybody there and then everybody at his home, too. I itched for days (I'm not especially allergically reactive to the compound), and his wife wore red handprints on her back from the "backrub" he gave her.

 

Even better, in an attempt to begin the conditioning process followed by lacquer workers in Japan, he ingested a matchtip-sized bit of urushi in a cup of tea to begin building immunity. Do they have the Michelin Tire Man in Japan? If not, he could have modeled. He was able to open his already slanted eyes only millimeters due to the puffiness.

 

A beautiful, matchless finish is the urushi hallmark. That level of craftsmanship comes at a steep price. Cut your teeth on commercially available finishes like enamels and synthetic lacquers. Learn your brushing technique, don't get too discouraged by sanding off nearly all of your first 6 coats, and do wear a mask and gloves. Just don't expect that minor protective gear to render you invulnerable to a poison like urushi.

 

Will Graves

[kusunokimasahige]

geez!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

so is dried urushi still damaging when you sand it?

 

km

[Rich S]

No, once cured, it is basically harmless. Still I'd wear

a dust filter mask when doing extensive sanding on

any material.

 

Rich S