Hey guys anyone ever see this type of koshirae before, I had asked for translation help...

[Yasaka Azuma]

Can you please ensure your name is on every reply by embedding it in your signature.

Lots of Newcomers are not adhering to this policy.

 

 

I still don't know how. I type every time, not smart!

 

The exterior is a traditional and splendid style dating from the 13th century, so a deformed copy of the new era is made.

Apparently, there are no scratches or abrasions that would normally occur, so I think it is electroplated refinished as Adam says.

 

Yas.A

 

金銅装楓紋透呑口式腰刀拵

http://www.city.odawara.kanagawa.jp/index.php?p=&d=field/lifelong/culture/reporter/reporter&c=&type=article&art_id=5602

[Peter Bleed]

Question: Who's it for?

Answer: The guy who wants to look like he is the richest one at the whore house.

[Yuradneprov]

Yes Yas that looks similar just different style. That is definitely way older then this one lol. The one I have in hand does have some scratches and abrasion just not many.i still feel like like it was made in early shinshinto period although may be I am wrong in not 100%. Just my opinion

[Yuradneprov]

Lol Peter maybe

[Yuradneprov]

Definitely flashy koshirae.

[Babu]

I just saw that sold for just under £10,000 that's very expensive I would have baulked at £2,500.

Did you pay that for it?

The kozuka looks like it's been painted.

Thats pretty clear in the images.

Still beauty is in the eye and all that.

[Yuradneprov]

As I mentioned I didn't buy it from eBay. Also I didn't buy it for the koshirae bought it only because of the sword and yes it was not cheap.

[Yuradneprov]

If you find a tamaki signed and dated for 2500 please do your nihonto neighbor a favor and tell me about it ill buy 1 or 2 or how many ever you can get lol

[Yuradneprov]

I'm not sure if you guys are aware of what smith tamaki is? This was the early mei of kiyomaro. Just saying. Regardless of mei I haven't seen many signed and dated kogarasu Maru wakizashi for 2500 then again I really haven't done any research on them and price of different Smiths that made similar pieces but either way 2500 won't buy you a mumei piece of junk truthfully

[Yuradneprov]

Correction 2500 pounds that's about 4k roughly I suppose yes you can buy a low end sword for that amount.

[Babu]

Tamaki known Signatures:

山浦環

yamaura tamaki

 

No record that I could find to corroborate your mei. What was your point of reference as admittedly I'm just going on records and known examples.

Well done if it's shoshin I still wouldn't have bought it myself. I must admit I find this whole scenario of going from a kogatana mei to this point rather strange.

Regards Adam

[Yuradneprov]

We all know decent swords cost decent money there's absolutely nothing cheap about nice pieces. 10-15k honestly will buy you a mid entry sword that mid level. Collecting nice swords is never cheap unfortunetly and there's also risk involved when buying swords like that are bringback with no papers. But those that don't risk can sit home and eat bread and butter while those that do will eventually sip louis the 13th

[Yuradneprov]

I didn't want to share anything prior to owning Adam it wasn't really a secret. I knew what the translation to the mei on the wakizashi was. Just had no clue about the kogatana and koshirae

[Yuradneprov]

Adam do you own nihonto taikan or kanzan koza? Or maybe kotetsu kiyomaro book?

[Yuradneprov]

Sorry didn't see, the references I used were the nihonto taikan, kanzan koza, nihonto koza, and kotetsu kiyomaro book along with some other books that don't have as much info as the ones I listed

[Babu]

I'm not sure if you guys are aware of what smith tamaki is? This was the early mei of kiyomaro. Just saying. Regardless of mei I haven't seen many signed and dated kogarasu Maru wakizashi for 2500 then again I really haven't done any research on them and price of different Smiths that made similar pieces but either way 2500 won't buy you a mumei piece of junk truthfully

Kiyomaro (清麿) changed his sword name many times during his brief career. The first name he used was Ikkanshi Masayuki (一貫齋正行), then he used Hidetoshi (秀壽), later he switched to Yamaura Tamaki (山浦環). After that he went back to Masayuki (正行) and finally to Kiyomaro (清麿).

[Yuradneprov]

Yes I read this. There are existing examples with only tamaki written without the yamaura.

[Yuradneprov]

Kanzan koza has one that has a single kanji mei. Just tamaki.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Yura, PLEASE don't put down your every thought on a separate post!!

[Babu]

Darcy has a papered kiyomaru on his website for reference . It's also dated and there is a character on that date that's identical to the one on your blade. However the atari on that kanji are struck from the opposite direction to your blades atari on that same character.This would throw red flags for my simple mind but I appreciate your far more knowledgeable than I so will bow to that fact.

[Yuradneprov]

The direction varies there are examples that go both directions. Believe me I checked everyrhing

[Yuradneprov]

Will put an example up with arrows that point in the same direction in a little bit when I get back home. He really have many different ways of signing this is dated 1835 would be when he was 24years old and is beginning of his career as he gets older the style changed into a more squared of kanji look

[Yuradneprov]

From kiyomaro kotetsu book..same example both pictures

[Yasaka Azuma]

Is the topic of koshirae over?　Why are you getting so heated? 

You don't have to worry about kiyomaro's signature. No one can reach the real kiyomaro.

 

See a Mekugi (fastening pin) hole. Grindstone powder is sticked.

Evidence that the previous owner of this wakizashi often maintained it. I think that the next owner should also be cherished.

 

Y.A

 

 

[Brian]

Yura....please combine your thoughts into longer posts. You don't need a new post for every sentence.
You can even edit a post and add to it. It is frustrating reading 5 sentences as 5 different posts.
Adam, please stop commenting on pricing and criticizing purchases. It is becoming too common in your replies and we are not here to make buyers feel worse.
Maybe this is the ruptured disc (again) talking, but I am lacking patience today.

[Yuradneprov]

Brian, don't worry nobody is making anyone feel worse I bought the piece because I did my due diligence and im confident in what I bought. Please let everyone comment in any way they would like I welcome it. The reason i made this post was to hear what people had to say about it and i respect everyones opinion as long as some sort of reference is provided with their statement. To some people 13k maybe a lot of money and so they maybe in shock as to how someome can spend that amount on a unpapered bringback, but to some 13k is 13 dollars and it's not much of a risk. this wouldn't be the first sword I've bought without papers as a matter fact I prefer to buy swords without papers and all the big collectors do to but not many would openly tell you that. No problem ken and no problem brian I will combine my posts im very sorry i didnt realize that It bothers people that i dont use the same post for all my thoughts after all the internet is infinite space, i just didnt realize that everytime write something every one gets a ping. Yaz I'm not sure what you mean by getting so heated I'm not sure if your referring to me? If so heated about what? Also i don't know why your comparing the mei to only one reference if you do that with all the swords you potentially want to buy one can only Imagine how many good swords you let slip thru your hands. I'm not going to explain what I explained before either way. The sword has to go to Japan so we will see if it's shoshin or not. But I appreciate your effort in the drawings yaz. When you sign you name on a piece of paper were not talking about tamahagane now is your signuture 100 percent the same everytime? I bet the answer is no, try chizeling into metal and have the same exact precise result every single time. I could put up 30 different swords by kiyomaro that all have different signutures and different writing styles. You simply cannot judge a mei from 1 reference. There's a panel of judges when your sword goes thru shinsha just in case one judge may see something the other does not although they are all professional they reach a verdict together based on a huge library of references. Either way at this point its every ones opinion because neither you or me are in the nthk or nbthk. All we can do when we buy a sword is refer to references we have at hand and make an educated decision based on that. At least that's the way I buy my swords and I do pretty well at it.

 

Yaz if you have a moment on your hand please take a look at the pictures I posted at 1143pm.

 

Brian what are your thoughts on the date and mei would like to hear your opinion on this.

 

Attached is probably the best explanation to the science of gimei artists. Might help for the future.

 

Yura D.

[Babu]

I was not getting heated and I don't know how that could be interpreted.

However we are straying from the path of the original post.

[Yasaka Azuma]

Yura. Like you, sometimes person send a picture to the Japanese sword fansite established in Japan.

"Hey guys, see one. I have got a wonderful samurai sword, and it's signed by Masamune!(or kotetsu or kiyomaro or...) "

The Japanese response is always the same.

"Oh great. If it's a real thing, it's a big discovery, so I recommend that you examine it with an authoritative appraiser."

The next NBTHK review will be in September. I expect good results.

Y.A

[Babu]

If I can say so, I also agree with Yasaka and echo his good wishes for good luck at the shinsa.

[Surfson]

I agree guys.  Many's the time we have debated whether a mei is shoshin or not prior to shinsa.  It's good to have the authoritative source to help with these determinations.  If it is shoshin, it will be the second one that came up first here on NMB, the first one being that great katana that we discussed a year ago...