ww2colorado Posted October 24, 2019 Report Posted October 24, 2019 hello guys a local collector has offered a sword for sale. I am unsure of the signature as far as what it reads can anyone help me with a translation please? I will try to get better pictures from the seller if need be Quote
Peter Bleed Posted October 24, 2019 Report Posted October 24, 2019 Rather interesting. - in that it has two signatures. You can start on on either side - and come up with a similar "similar" result. This will be a good project! Peter Quote
Peter Bleed Posted October 24, 2019 Report Posted October 24, 2019 Chuck, You can figure this out. Look at the second to the last character on each side. Count the strokes (ignore the handwiriting) and you'll get 6. At that point you can go to Robinson 51 or the "Y" section of Hawley... Peter Quote
ww2colorado Posted October 24, 2019 Author Report Posted October 24, 2019 Guy's at the moment i have no reference materials, i will have a second look at the pictures Quote
Surfson Posted October 24, 2019 Report Posted October 24, 2019 No worries Chuck. Both are signed Yoshi michi. On one side, Yamato no kami and on the other side Tanba no kami. Quote
ww2colorado Posted October 24, 2019 Author Report Posted October 24, 2019 Chuck you have been presented with a lot of information. Now is the time for you to "hit the books" In the old days that meant going to the books. My generation used a big thick volume by W. Hawley. You may be more comfortable with digital resources. So google "Tamba no kami YOSHIMICHI; and "Yamato no kami YOSHIMICHI" see what you find. After you have done that, I suggest that you also google the word "GIMEI." Peter Is hawley a book for reference? Or website? Quote
ww2colorado Posted October 24, 2019 Author Report Posted October 24, 2019 Surfson , thank you very much. May i ask when this blade may have been made etc? Quote
Ed Posted October 24, 2019 Report Posted October 24, 2019 It appears to be a collaborative work between the Osaka based Yamato no Kami Yoshimichi and Kyoto based Tanba no Kami Yoshimichi, though the quality of the mei looks questionable. Could be later generations. You should be looking at the hataraki in the blade. Quote
Ed Posted October 24, 2019 Report Posted October 24, 2019 If I remember correctly the shodai Tanba signed with kiku (can't remember if the later generations did, but I think not), also Yamato did not sign with kiku. If, IF the mei are legit, dates would be mid to late 1600's. Quote
ww2colorado Posted October 24, 2019 Author Report Posted October 24, 2019 Guys thanks fornthe replies. I will be checking the blade out in person in an hour or so and will show more pictures. Iam unsure what to offer. Quote
Tom Darling Posted October 25, 2019 Report Posted October 25, 2019 A double whammy. IMO. Peace. Tom D. Quote
Peter Bleed Posted October 25, 2019 Report Posted October 25, 2019 Chuck you have been presented with a lot of information. Now is the time for you to "hit the books" In the old days that meant going to the books. My generation used a big thick volume by W. Hawley. You may be more comfortable with digital resources. So google "Tamba no kami YOSHIMICHI; and "Yamato no kami YOSHIMICHI" see what you find. After you have done that, I suggest that you also google the word "GIMEI." Peter Quote
ww2colorado Posted October 25, 2019 Author Report Posted October 25, 2019 Yes Peter I would love to find good reference material I prefer books rather than Electronics. If a computer goes out or an electronical device I would have no way to look at anything at all. Reference material is one of the best things to be armed with, I really have had no clue of where to get any books on the subject. I'm glad you have made that apparent. I have learned the word gimei and it seems to be a term thrown around when collectors are unsure of or cannot verify themselves personally that a swordsmiths signature is authentic or not...Then we hear about papers and verification process yada yada Quote
Ed Posted October 25, 2019 Report Posted October 25, 2019 In this instance Hawley's or any other text only book will not help you. Those two smiths did sign as yours is signed ie; Yamato no Kami Yoshimichi and Tanba no Kami Yoshimichi. The new pictures don't help except to point out negatives, at least one chip in ha, scattered rust, looks like suguba. Can't see any sudare ba. ??? What you need is oshigata or clear photos of known good mei to compare to the two mei on the sword in question. Look at the ones below. I think the probability of gimei is high. I would not touch this. And I would recommend you do the same unless it is all you can afford or is a give away (dirt cheap). If you are looking for something from the Mishina school, I have a Tango no Kami Kanemichi wakizashi which is ubu, signed and has two sets of papers for $1800. That's dirt cheap and a way better sword: http://http://yakiba.com/Daisho_Wak_Tango_no_Kami_Kanemichi.htm Quote
Peter Bleed Posted October 25, 2019 Report Posted October 25, 2019 Chuck, Welcome to the hobby! Where do you live in Colorado? There is a sword communiyt out there. And from my experience, lots of public libraries have good "OLD" source. Borrow a copy of John Yumoto, and B. W. Robinson. Niether is perfect, but what the heck, I also urge you to meet other collecotrs. We are a complex communiyt, but we are also a handy means of looking at swords. Peter Quote
Brian Posted October 25, 2019 Report Posted October 25, 2019 I also have a sword signed by both of these smiths, almost the same style and shape as yours. Will have to dig it out. I always assumed it was gimei too, but seems these 2 smiths did joint work. So possibly some faker was specializing in gimei of their works. Not sure. 1 Quote
Jacques Posted October 25, 2019 Report Posted October 25, 2019 Gimei without any doubt Dot of no kami engraved downward instead being engraved upward (Tamba) dots in the square of Michi in the wrong way (both)... Quote
Tom Darling Posted October 29, 2019 Report Posted October 29, 2019 One inscriber (forger) signed both mei. ato-mei. Peace. Tom D. Quote
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