When is it OK to ask $35.9K for a Tokubetsu Hozon?

[nihonto1001]

When you got one of these:

http://www.aoi-art.com/sword/sale/08275.html

 

This is an awesome looking blade with beautiful koshirae.

 

What do you all think?

 

Jon

[remzy]

NBTHK origamy isnt a price tag, its irrelevant to the actual value in this case.

[Brian]

If you like that as far as papers go..how about this one? http://nihonto.ca/reisen-sadamori/

Where else do you get a guarantee that it will go juyo or you get $4K back?

 

Brian

[paulb]

Dear All

I fear that as a group of students/collectors we are becoming paper obsessed. I think this is due mainly to the increased amount of Internet buying and the security we feel (rightly or wrongly) when buying work unseen but with a paper. The danger is that we start buying papers instead of swords.

The commercial value of a blade is certanly enhanced when it receives a high level paper but that increase is incremental on the value of the same work unpapered not for comparison with other works. It is not unreasonable for a blade by a top smith with TH papers to be regarded as of higher value than a juyo blade attributed to a lesser school.

For example a TH Rai Kunitoshi would I think command a lot higher price than a Juyo Naminohira (spelling!) or Mino senjuin work.

The important factor regarding price is as always what someone is prepared to pay. This is generally governed by quality, rarity and importance of the artist within the history of the art form. It may be influenced by the papers it has but should not be dependent on them.

regards

Paulb

[Henry Wilson]

I think for 400,000 yen, this one is good

 

http://www.finesword.co.jp/sale/touken/ ... gohyoe.htm

[Brian]

Paul,

I agree in principle that we aren't collecting papers. For me, the nice thing about papers is that for a novice that has been told to study good pieces and use them to learn more, if you buy a sword with papers, you know what you are studying and there is less chance it is saiha or gimei. The papers confirm what you think you have.

The other thing is that while I am against collecting to make a profit, I am realistic and like to know that if I am ever forced to sell, I could get my money back at least. Papers do help with a sale, and especially Juyo papers.

That doesn't go against what you said though. Unpapered top swords are still better than Juyo blades to lesser schools. But rather papered than unpapered in either case.

Shinsa just confirms that the sword is worthy of preservation, and it is always nice to know that, and that it has no significant problems. You could say that a good state of polish is as important as papers. Both help towards the study and appreciation to a degree.

 

Henry..that is certainly a good deal for someone. $4K for a papered and polished katana? I don't expect that will sit for long.

 

Brian

[paulb]

Hi Brian,

Yes I agree with everything you say, and certainly after 25 years+ I am still much more comfortable buying blades with papers than without. I think all I was trying to get at is that the paper should not govern the value all it should do is confirm autheticity and condition.

I admit that that can certainly improve the saleability.

[Kajihei]

Where else do you get a guarantee that it will go juyo or you get $4K back?

 

Hi All,

 

Wow, what a great idea! I don't mean to sound cynical, and I am sure this is the seller's way of expressing his confidence, but this is also a brilliant marketing strategy. If I had a sword to sell and want $10,000 for it, I will ask $15,000 and offer the juyo guarantee or else refund $4,000. Buyer will be happy, I will be happy, and NBTHK will certainly be happy to collect the shinsa fee. We all win. Why don't more dealers do this, I wonder.

 

Kaji

[Guido]

Where else do you get a guarantee that it will go juyo or you get $4K back?

 

Hi All,

 

Wow, what a great idea! I don't mean to sound cynical, and I am sure this is the seller's way of expressing his confidence, but this is also a brilliant marketing strategy. If I had a sword to sell and want $10,000 for it, I will ask $15,000 and offer the juyo guarantee or else refund $4,000. Buyer will be happy, I will be happy, and NBTHK will certainly be happy to collect the shinsa fee. We all win. Why don't more dealers do this, I wonder.

 

Kaji

Matsumoto-san, if you think that scheme will work will all swords and all dealers, I strongly urge you to do this kind of business yourself - you'll be stinkingly rich in no time!

[nihonto1001]

That is one sweet rig though. I personaly would not spend that much sight unseen. But, it is very compelling. Just a nice all around set up. I could not find much info on Ietsugu though.

 

All: As far as the Sadamori, a nice sword I know, also a rare smith, but Hawley does have him rated at 100.

 

Henry: Cannot comment. I could not pull it up.

 

Jon

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

It seems the blade is signed Bishu kuni ju I(y)etsugu and not Bizen kuni ju I(y)etsugu as stated by mister Tsuruta.

[Nobody]

It seems the blade is signed Bishu kuni ju I(y)etsugu and not Bizen kuni ju I(y)etsugu as stated by mister Tsuruta.

Hi,

 

I do not think so. The mei surly is Bizen (no) kuni ju Ietsugu (å‚™å‰åœ‹ä½å®¶æ¬¡).

One never says x州國ä½xx, because Shu (å·ž) always includes Kuni (國).

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

Moriyama san,

 

If you are right (and i think you are), the only Bizen Ietsugu i've found worked in Oei and is rated 400 man in the ToKo Taikan, not a real big name.