Help for new members

[dhusker]

May I suggest a new discussion area be added to the forum. The first time I posted to the forum I was somewhat apprehensive about the response I would get. Fortunately, it was friendly. Since then I have observed what I would term less than courteous and understanding posts and replies by some members.

 

I belong to other forums that have a category for beginners and posters that don't wish to appear as fools because of a lack of knowledge. Could we please have an area that allows no flames of any type....I think it would help to draw in new members

 

Over the past several weeks, I have met some wonderful people here and have been helped by all. Several members in particular have been great. You know who you are.

 

Just my Sunday morning rambling as I lay in a hospital bed with a brand new heart stent...plenty of time to cruise Ebay for Nihonto blades. :lol:]

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Just my Sunday morning rambling as I lay in a hospital bed with a brand new heart stent...plenty of time to cruise Ebay for Nihonto blades. :lol:]

 

Wish you a prompt healing.

[Taygrd]

I hope you recover quickly and completely.

[Jean]

Heal well my friend

[Brian]

Dan,

Glad you are recovering well, and all the best.

I'll give your comment some thought. It is always difficult to decide what is a novice question and what isn't, as often novice questions turn into a serious discussion. But let's see what can be done.

 

Regards,

Brian

[Chriso]

Thanks for that Dan. I'm a new member who has been sitting on the side for a while now trying to learn as much as I can before diving in and asking what may seem as dumb questions. I was bitten by the bug about six months ago and have taken the hint to read as much as possible before outlaying good money on something that I may later regret. The problem as I am discovering is that the more I read and learn, the more there is to read and learn.

 

From looking at the posted comments on this forum I realise there is a wealth of information within the group and I for one am a bit aprehensive about asking for help regarding something that may seem trivial to the majority of members.

 

I think Dans Idea of a numpty site where we can post our questions and gradually learn is a great idea and I think you may be supprised at the number of interested people out there who are in a similar position to me (sitting on the side)and who would love to have the opportunity to learn from the experts without getting tangled up with the main stream collectors in the rest of the forum.

 

Regards Chris

[dhusker]

Thanks for that Dan. I'm a new member who has been sitting on the side for a while now trying to learn as much as I can before diving in and asking what may seem as dumb questions. I was bitten by the bug about six months ago and have taken the hint to read as much as possible before outlaying good money on something that I may later regret. The problem as I am discovering is that the more I read and learn, the more there is to read and learn.

 

From looking at the posted comments on this forum I realise there is a wealth of information within the group and I for one am a bit aprehensive about asking for help regarding something that may seem trivial to the majority of members.

 

I think Dans Idea of a numpty site where we can post our questions and gradually learn is a great idea and I think you may be supprised at the number of interested people out there who are in a similar position to me (sitting on the side)and who would love to have the opportunity to learn from the experts without getting tangled up with the main stream collectors in the rest of the forum.

 

Regards Chris

 

Thanks Chris, this is exactly how I feel. Brian I understand your concerns also, but why not let the rookies post and if the experts want to jump in so much the better as long as there is no personal criticism or cynical put downs.

 

I guess the teacher (retired) in me thinks that there is no such thing as a stupid question. I saw many students that were afraid of being made fun of....once drawn out they often became valuable contributors to the class. Thanks for considering my idea.

[Jean]

Dan wrote :

 

there is no such thing as a stupid question

 

Right, there are only stupid answers

[Brian]

Dan,

One of the things this forum prides itself on is answering all questions, and never calling any question a stupid one. Even basic questions have been answered such as how to oil a blade, how to remove the tsuka, and identifying obvious fakes. I can't think of any novice questions that weren't answered politely and thoroughly?

Of course questions on buying low class and really flawed blades will always be given the correct advice that you should save for something better. However that is a fact of collecting, and shouldn't be seen as unhelpful. We wouldn't be responsible collectors if we encouraged people to buy junk. I think that would be for another forum that is more concerned with the idea of a "samurai sword" than actually learning about them and conserving them. But even those questions are hopefully answered tactfully. So novice questions are welcome anytime. Many have been answered before, and a search of the forum will give all the info. Not sure what kind of questions we are talking about though? Maybe some of them are beyond the scope of this particular forum, but we will always try our best to give good info. We are lucky to have people like Grey and others who spend most of their time teaching novices as part of their work with the relevant organisations.

So ask away, and I think you will find that the answers are gladly given, assuming they are not counter productive to what we are preaching here

 

Regards,

Brian

[dhusker]

Dan,

One of the things this forum prides itself on is answering all questions, and never calling any question a stupid one. Even basic questions have been answered such as how to oil a blade, how to remove the tsuka, and identifying obvious fakes. I can't think of any novice questions that weren't answered politely and thoroughly?

Of course questions on buying low class and really flawed blades will always be given the correct advice that you should save for something better. However that is a fact of collecting, and shouldn't be seen as unhelpful. We wouldn't be responsible collectors if we encouraged people to buy junk. I think that would be for another forum that is more concerned with the idea of a "samurai sword" than actually learning about them and conserving them. But even those questions are hopefully answered tactfully. So novice questions are welcome anytime. Many have been answered before, and a search of the forum will give all the info. Not sure what kind of questions we are talking about though? Maybe some of them are beyond the scope of this particular forum, but we will always try our best to give good info. We are lucky to have people like Grey and others who spend most of their time teaching novices as part of their work with the relevant organisations.

So ask away, and I think you will find that the answers are gladly given, assuming they are not counter productive to what we are preaching here

 

Regards,

Brian

Thank you for the reply. As I said in my original post....."Over the past several weeks, I have met some wonderful people here and have been helped by all. Several members in particular have been great. You know who you are." My main point is that I suggested an area that would be a comfortable discussion group for those who might be shy about posting. I belong to other forums that have this feature and it seems to work well. Thanks again for your thoughtful reply and all of tje work you do for this forum.

[Eric H]

Dan

 

My best hope for rapid recovery

 

Sincerely

Eric

[Brian]

Dan,

Could you give some examples of the type of questions that might be asked? I am just trying to see how feasible it would be, and whether it would already be covered under the existing sections or not. Translations of course already have their own section, so if you could give some examples of what to cover, it will help me a bit to decide.

Most of us (myself included) still consider ourselves novices, so I consider most questions to fall in that category.

Do you envisage questions about how to care for them, how to disassemble or ???

 

Thanks,

Brian

[Stephen]

To play devils advocate ill take the other side, on many occasions a newbie would ask the standard newbie question only to fall on def reply, or with a out lash of boy that's a piece of junk hope you didn't pay over x amount of dollars what a dumb buy, type of response. seen it happen all too often, one of the reasons I took on the Mod job was to help the new guy with the standard question. I think newbie corner is not a bad idea, they can ask basically the same questions but in a place when more advanced collectors don't have to enter. does seem like a waste of space and can see a lot of Translation Assistance getting sent back and forth, but a sound concept none the less.

[dhusker]

To play devils advocate ill take the other side, on many occasions a newbie would ask the standard newbie question only to fall on def reply, or with a out lash of boy that's a piece of junk hope you didn't pay over x amount of dollars what a dumb buy, type of response. seen it happen all too often, one of the reasons I took on the Mod job was to help the new guy with the standard question. I think newbie corner is not a bad idea, they can ask basically the same questions but in a place when more advanced collectors don't have to enter. does seem like a waste of space and can see a lot of Translation Assistance getting sent back and forth, but a sound concept none the less.

You make a very valid point. A strong point of the forum is the stance taken by the moderators not allowing smart @#$ comments. Thanks Stephen , Brian, and Guido.

[Stephen]

was asked in PM who would be allowed to come in and who is really advanced.

 

reply is

 

it would be open to anyone who wants to come and go.

some are more advanced than they think they are and alot not as advanced as they think they are.

[dhusker]

Dan,

Could you give some examples of the type of questions that might be asked? I am just trying to see how feasible it would be, and whether it would already be covered under the existing sections or not. Translations of course already have their own section, so if you could give some examples of what to cover, it will help me a bit to decide.

Most of us (myself included) still consider ourselves novices, so I consider most questions to fall in that category.

Do you envisage questions about how to care for them, how to disassemble or ???

 

Thanks,

Brian

It might be a place for posting "how to" questions i.e. how can I replace my little wooden peg that holds my handle on, What would it cost to re-wrap the handle, my handle is stuck, how do I free it up, or how do I sharpen my blade? (heaven forbid, but I know a person that sharpened his grandfathers Gendaito with an electric grinder.)

 

Perhaps it could be a section where a newbie FAQ list could be placed. From personal experience, I can tell you that when I first started I was intimidated by the Japanese terms used. This might be a section for the newbie to use the terms handle, wooden peg, hand guard, or spacer things without feeling overwhelmed....learning the correct terms will come sooner or later depending on the individual.

 

Just a few ideas....thanks for asking.

[Brian]

I do have a problem with this, for the reason that it seems to imply that beginners don't get help normally, when they do.

I am still not sure what kind of questions would necessitate a beginners section, and who would answer them?

If the regular members, then they will answer them in the usual places anyways. And what qualifies as a beginner question?

 

Questions about the basics of Nihonto are answered all over the net, including here. These include everything about manufacture, cleaning, use, appreciation and restoration. That leads me to think that by beginner questions...what is actually meant is questions about poor swords and ones that are in the $500 range that we get asked about so often.

Frankly, we answer them to the best of our ability, but I am not going to create a new section purely to talk about swords that most of us are encouraging people to sell and upgrade to items you can learn from. So if the request is to discuss lower class swords more, I don't see it happening. Not least because who will answer those questions?

 

I get asked regularly to be more on topic and elevate the discussion to better quality swords. However I think we have found a happy middle ground. You can get advice on all swords, but are encouraged to see and learn about better swords. That is how any art study works. Many of my own swords are not great quality either...but I do enjoy them for what they are. But i wouldn't want to fixate on them to the exclusion of everything else. Are we not making an issue of something that doesn't exist?

 

If someone comes here asking about a machine made NCO shin gunto, do we tell him what we can about it, and then move on to genuine Nihonto..or do we create a new section for him?

 

I would be happier with some explanation of exactly what this section would address, and why it is necessary. Trying to get people not to buy "restoration projects" that they are going to polish themselves that are filled with ware is not elitism by any means..it is what we should be teaching as responsible Nihonto collectors and students. So what are we trying to address with a new section and to what goals?

 

Brian

[Brian]

Dan,

 

I posted while you were posting. After reading what you asked, that does indeed make a lot of sense, and is something I was planning anyways. However it doesn't need a new section, I am going to make a new FAQ page where we can post the answers to all the common questions.

I can add the link above the forum...a FAQ page that can address all the issues such as "How do I oil my sword" "How do I disassemble it" and others.

Can be added to as we come up with new questions. That makes much more sense than another forum category for questions that will just get buried as more posts are made.

 

Brian

[dhusker]

Dan,

 

I posted while you were posting. After reading what you asked, that does indeed make a lot of sense, and is something I was planning anyways. However it doesn't need a new section, I am going to make a new FAQ page where we can post the answers to all the common questions.

I can add the link above the forum...a FAQ page that can address all the issues such as "How do I oil my sword" "How do I disassemble it" and others.

Can be added to as we come up with new questions. That makes much more sense than another forum category for questions that will just get buried as more posts are made.

 

Brian

That sounds like a good proposal. After reading you last post, I believe that another section would indeed be redundant and a FAQ would help a lot of new members. Thank you for considering my proposal. I believe that it created some constructive dialog on both sides.

[Guido]

I don't think we need a "beginners's forum" for the reasons Brian already stated. Yes, some of the old Nihontô hands here get annoyed when the same question is asked for the umpteenth time (isn't the search function a wonderful thing? ), and that irritation shows now and again. But if the same seasoned collectors don't go to the beginner's forum, how will those posting there ever advance in their knowledge?

 

Another sensible topic is "is it worth buying?". I think that there are as many opinions on this as there are forumites. Most will agree that swords in the $$$ range, mass-produced Shôwatô or Kazuuchimono from the Sengoku Jidai aren't what we'd like to promote as collectible swords. But if memory serves, quite a few beginning collectors were quite happy that they were made aware of the flaws and - above all - total lack of artistic qualities of the swords they were about to buy on eBay or from low-end sellers.

 

I think the crux of the matter is actually the "tone of voice" of some replies to newbie questions, which isn't always as warm and friendly as it should be. I don't exclude myself, I'm sometimes guilty of it, too. If we can work on that, newcomers won't feel as imtimidated as they obviously sometimes do. I promise to try to become a better person in this regard :D.

 

Where I really see some room for improvement is in a more prominent FAQ/articles section. It's kind of embarrassing for me to post every other week a link to my sword law or sword care articles. If one clicks on "FAQ" now, there's a lot of technical info on NMB itself, but not on sword related questions. Brian, any chance to make some changes there?

[Rickisan]

Dont get me wrong, I feel very honored for the free advice and knowledge shared. As for a new Topic/section...I would vote yes if it was that easy

 

I wouldn't allow the "how to" do this and that, that can be found by a search. But advice, or "does this seem like a sound item, worthy of purchase?"-yes.

 

I have noticed that it usually the same 6 or 7 people that give their 2 cents for the rookie questions, and good or bad its very welcomed.

 

The more interesting the item is....it gets a few more replies.

 

If the question is from one of the big dogs...all other big guys chime in.

 

Nothing worse than being scared to ask - but going for it, asking for the big guns advice advice on a possible item,(good or bad) get only 3 to 5 thumbs up replys...and after the purchase get 50 replies of,"why did you buy that, its a clunker and had been sold back and forth 10 times...everyone knows its bad....and that seller is a scoundrel, why did you buy it from him."

 

Rick

...venting..please dont kick me out I really do love it here :D

[Brian]

Well said Guido, all good points. I think we can all think a bit of our tone when replying, especially on the internet where the way it sounds in our head might not be the way it comes across.

Yep..I like the FAQ section idea. The existing faq above is a part of the bulletin board software, however I am looking at adding one at the top (Nihonto theme guys see the top row of links) that will go to a faq page. There we can have all the answers to common questions and articles etc.

Maybe we could host some of those great articles you have done. I know many are on other sites, but any that aren't booked, would be great to have here along with the ones we do have.

I'll work on the page and we can go live asap. I'll ask when i am ready and we can have question/answer suggestions.

 

Rick, sometimes what people who deal daily with $20K swords see isn't the same as we see when we are only spending $2-5K..and sometimes the swords really aren't that bad. Other times people who know something don't want to say it in public. We need to encourage them to use the pm function if that is the case. However there is still a lot of good info, and this is one of the few places you can get info on a dealer and get a general idea beforehand.

 

Thanks all,

Brian

[dhusker]

I really like your idea to include articles be the experts in the FAQ section. The more accessible the information is, the better for all. Thanks again for your hard work.

 

Dan

[Chriso]

Stephen,

Very valid points. I must admit that I have found the forum members to be more than accommodating, having said that I believe that there are probably a number of potential members who are uncertain about adding their comments when they see the high level of understanding of many members, not knocking that at all, but I do think that a sand pit to play in initially may wet ones appetite before diving in the deep end. I for one would take up the offer.

 

I also agree of course that it should be availabe to one and all and that those with some knowledge on the subject who wish to help out may assist as they see fit.

 

Best wishes Chris

[Bungo]

" alot not as advanced as they think they are "

you said it, I didn't

 

milt

[Jean]

alot not as advanced as they think they are

 

The hare and the tortoise :

 

Moral : No need to run, just start on time

 

extract from : La Fontaine's Fables

[Guido]

Maybe we could host some of those great articles you have done. I know many are on other sites, but any that aren't booked, would be great to have here along with the ones we do have.

I'll work on the page and we can go live asap.

It took me a couple of days, but I just sent you 10 articles / charts (and more to follow) that I edited and updated for the NMB, including some that already are published elsewhere; there's no copyright attached - with the exception of maybe my own - and I firmly believe in sharing information.

 

I did all the files in PDF format, letter size (because most forumites are located in the US, and letter should print out in A4 o.k. as well), but if anyone has problems with the formatting, ,just let me know. The same goes for spelling and grammar mistakes (after all, I'm not a native English speaker), or any other mistakes that may have occured.

 

Well, Brian, no more excuses: get to work!