John A Stuart Posted April 29, 2008 Report Posted April 29, 2008 Hi All, I just thought I should post this kozuka I bought via Ol' Po as he is so affectionately known. I found this particularly appealing. The way the dragon is stalking the hokko. Anyway it is Kakujo, the one who started the Kanbei line. That made it a little special too. This relates to the Sato Kanzan hakogaki I for which I asked for a translation. I have put preliminary dealer sourced pics on my site. John http://www.johnstuart.biz/new_page_10.htm Here is one close-up as well. Quote
Rich T Posted April 29, 2008 Report Posted April 29, 2008 Hi John, just curious, it looks like the end of the tail is missing ?, is that correct. Cheers Richard Quote
John A Stuart Posted April 29, 2008 Author Report Posted April 29, 2008 You know Rich I was worried about that as well. Usually there is that sceptre like club on the end. So I looked closely at the origami and it is not on the pic attached, so, it was appraised as it is. Still I wanted to be more sure and checked this type of dragon (Hairyu) among other contemporary Goto masters and found a kozuka by Goto Mitsushige early 17th cent. that has the tail end the same way. So, I hope it is correct. The nanako in the area looks undisturbed to me. I hope it is anyway, fingers crossing. John Quote
John A Stuart Posted April 29, 2008 Author Report Posted April 29, 2008 Here is a different angle. What's your opinion? It looks OK to me, unless the club end was off the nanakoji or it was repaired. There also seems to be no indication of break in the edge of the tail end. Thoughts? John Quote
Michael 101 Posted April 30, 2008 Report Posted April 30, 2008 Hi John, I have also seen Goto dragon tails ending this way rather than the sceptre etc and have attached by example one attested to Eijo (6th mainline). Not too clear in the picture (sorry) but the last section of the tail is straight and without scales, otherwise similar to yours - so it might not be damaged. Regards Michael Quote
John A Stuart Posted April 30, 2008 Author Report Posted April 30, 2008 Hi Michael, Yes that is one way for the tail to end. I have noticed over time a few different ways for the tail to be depicted. One is the common club end (term), like yours, another a more jewel like termination embellished, another rounded and very much like a reptiles tail and another is where a normal tail is wrapped around a jewel clearly not of the dragon but representing some achievement or attainment. I have seen all the first examples in Goto work, the few I've seen and the multitude in books, but, have not seen the tail clutched jewel form. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, just I haven't seen it yet. The indication of a straight appearing terminal on the dragon on the kozuka does sort of look like a break, but, when I look close there seems to be a worked surface along the edge and not a damaged edge. It is one thing I will have to inspect immediately upon arrival. It was shipped today. I will not worry about it 'til then. Thanks, John Quote
Bungo Posted April 30, 2008 Report Posted April 30, 2008 possibly the artist's way of showing the dragon is partially hidden from the cloud ? milt Quote
nagamaki - Franco Posted April 30, 2008 Report Posted April 30, 2008 Hi, the spaded end of a dragon's tail represents the male dragon and the rounded end a female. It would be highly unusual for a Goto piece to have an abrupt end, as they typically pay very close attention to finishing details. One thing to look for is a change in the base material at the end of the tail, such as a spot of copper being exposed. Quote
Brian Posted April 30, 2008 Report Posted April 30, 2008 Across each Asian culture, the differences between male and female dragons are relatively the same. A female dragon is most easily distinguishable if she is carrying a sensu, or fan in her tail. However, if nothing is being held in the tail, there are other clues. The spikes on the female's mane generally have rounded points; also, they have thicker bodies and their snouts are straighter. A dragon carrying a war club or other club-like weapon in its tail is a male dragon. If there is nothing held in the tail, they are distinguished from the female by being longer and having a curved snout. Also, the male has a rigid, pointier mane. Check to see if the dragon you are viewing has horns. A male dragon's horns tend to be thinner at the base than they are at the tip. John, lovely looking kozuka, I am holding thumbs there is no damage. If there turns out to be any, then you should approach Po for a full refund. I would look for repaired and restamped nanako, as there doesn't appear to be any missing. Anyways, best way is to examine it closely when it arrives. Regards, Brian Quote
John A Stuart Posted April 30, 2008 Author Report Posted April 30, 2008 Hi All, Thank you for your comments. When viewed directly from above the tail is rounded (from the pics I have) and as I have been researching dragon tails within the Goto school the last couple of days (who would have thought it) it is quite common. In fact one set of menuki has the two dragons, one with the club and one without that really has left me more confident. Time will tell, if it arrives before I return to work. Photos can really cause second guessing just by a shadow or weird angle. John Quote
Guest Lee Posted April 30, 2008 Report Posted April 30, 2008 Hi John, Nice Kozuka. I saw this come up forsale. Its funny, all the Major websites say do not by online auctions. I see many many pieces come up for sale on there sites for Thousands of dollars. That were on the same site. I am glade you got this one before they did. Thanks. Lee Quote
Stephen Posted April 30, 2008 Report Posted April 30, 2008 Well be looking forward to new pix when it arrives John, something kicking around it the head about how many claws as to what type of Dragon it represents. hope it makes it there before you ship out. Quote
Brian Posted April 30, 2008 Report Posted April 30, 2008 Japanese dragon = 3 claws/toes Korean dragon = 4 claws/toes Chinese dragon = 5 claws/toes Brian Quote
Bungo Posted April 30, 2008 Report Posted April 30, 2008 Japanese dragon = 3 claws/toesKorean dragon = 4 claws/toes Chinese dragon = 5 claws/toes Brian all depends, in Chinese art, the 5 toes are restricted to " imperial wares ", lesser number toes are for " lower " class....... also yellow color was forbidden to all but the Emperor ( like the lilac/purple was forbidden to others by the Tokugawa Shogunate from what I heard ). Certain color combinations were assigned to different ranks of princes, concubines etc etc. milt Quote
Bungo Posted May 6, 2008 Report Posted May 6, 2008 interesting how the body is " chopped up " to simulate in and out of cloud. Found this at the Chicago show.....no I couldn't afford it. milt Quote
John A Stuart Posted May 6, 2008 Author Report Posted May 6, 2008 Was this set signed Milt? Unusual for Goto isn't it? John Quote
Bungo Posted May 6, 2008 Report Posted May 6, 2008 funny you asked..........oops, I didn't check the flip side. it has NBTHK paper...I assume they are signed as NBTHK won't be so specific with the mei attribution unless it's there. They are on Mikey's table, you can probably check this ricecracker site. milt Quote
Eric H Posted May 7, 2008 Report Posted May 7, 2008 Futatokoromono "rain dragon" by Chikushisai Umi no Kami Nagateru Eric Quote
cccthoth Posted May 7, 2008 Report Posted May 7, 2008 funny you asked..........oops, I didn't check the flip side.it has NBTHK paper...I assume they are signed as NBTHK won't be so specific with the mei attribution unless it's there. They are on Mikey's table, you can probably check this ricecracker site. milt Signed on both the kogai and kozuka to Mitsuyasu. Mitsuyasu is Goto Benjo if I recall correctly and they would be on the Tetsugendo site although I haven't put them up yet. Milt, your FK are growing more expensive by the minute!!! I may post clearer pics on the forum when I get a chance. Cyrus Quote
John A Stuart Posted May 7, 2008 Author Report Posted May 7, 2008 Thanks, From the Hanzaemon Goto. Must have been the last of that line, eh? John Quote
Guest reinhard Posted May 8, 2008 Report Posted May 8, 2008 Goto Benjo was the second last of the Hanzaemon-line before Mitsumasa (according to Robinson). The quality of the nanako on the kozuka makes me wonder..? reinhard Quote
John A Stuart Posted May 9, 2008 Author Report Posted May 9, 2008 My kozuka arrived today. Wood box inside of a silk covered box and is a flawless example, whew, thank heavens. John Quote
Bungo Posted May 9, 2008 Report Posted May 9, 2008 John, The koz comes with a shinsa paper, yes ? Too bad we both missed the menuki.................... milt Quote
John A Stuart Posted May 9, 2008 Author Report Posted May 9, 2008 Yes, 17th year Heisei 2nd month 22nd day. 2005. NBTHK hozon. I would have had those menuki but I hit the wrong button with 10 sec. to go. Not cheap either. John Quote
Bungo Posted May 9, 2008 Report Posted May 9, 2008 " The quality of the nanako on the kozuka makes me wonder..? " NBTHK papered................ no wondering !! Mustn't question , believe me, I have seen the set in person at the Chicaho show, they are lovely..........( sometimes I notice after we downsize the pic files to fit the message board, the pics do not come out as nice as before ) milt Quote
cccthoth Posted May 9, 2008 Report Posted May 9, 2008 Goto Benjo was the second last of the Hanzaemon-line before Mitsumasa (according to Robinson). The quality of the nanako on the kozuka makes me wonder..? reinhard . Perhaps a better picture will ease your doubt? You can go to the website if you want to see the full closeup. Quote
Guest reinhard Posted May 10, 2008 Report Posted May 10, 2008 You can go to the website if you want to see the full closeup. Which one? It wasn't on the ricecracker-page (mentioned above) when I wanted to look it up yesterday. reinhard Quote
Bungo Posted May 10, 2008 Report Posted May 10, 2008 You can go to the website if you want to see the full closeup. Which one? It wasn't on the ricecracker-page (mentioned above) when I wanted to look it up yesterday. reinhard Felix, try this one........ http://www.tetsugendo.com/ my apology for directing folks to Ricecracker ............ milt Quote
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