Sotherby's Caldwell Prices

[kissakai]

Hi

Can anyone help with a realised price for

Southerby's Japanese Sword Fitting from the Caldwell collection?

It is a kozuka lot #49

I did a search on their sale site but can only go back to 1995

I have the identical kozuka

 

 

Grev UK

 

[seattle1]

Grev:

 575 Pounds.

 Arnold F.

[kissakai]

Thanks Arnold

A nice surprise as it coat me £240 earlier this year but doesn't have the 'blade'

Although this sale was over 20 years ago I understand prices are low at the moment

 

 

Grev UK

[christianmalterre]

"low" is somehow  very decent to call it....Not?

 

LOL!

 

i lost a lot of money! this is much more than to call this market just "low"...

 

but well...?!?....

 

next game...

 

Christian

[kissakai]

I suppose it has been difficult

Anybody want to try a figure on prices 10 years ago to current prices?

 

 

Grev UK

[Ken-Hawaii]

 

Anybody want to try a figure on prices 10 years ago to current prices?

A bit more complex, Grev, as you'd also have to peg the Pound against either the Euro or Pound for the same period, factoring inflation into the equation. But I'm sure we have someone on the board who can do that.

 

Ken

 

[Baka Gaijin]

Hi Grev and Ken.,

 

Since 1995, The Art Newspaper has published a yearly analysis of the rise and fall of Art objects (including Fine Wines) sold world wide.

 

http://theartnewspaper.com/

 

It will take a bit of digging and perhaps an email, but they have the info.

[drbvac]

Unless it is VERY special, original, one of a kind and attractive to a huge audience of collectors - any art item people keep will not usually increase in

price much beyond inflation and for normal ( not ungodly rich) very subject to the economy in general. Over 45 years of buying and selling, unless from

someone who has NO Idea what they have most purchases cost double whatI could sell them for the next day. If a speedy sale was needed - worse. I held on to a

blade for 30 years and got what I paid for it when sold.

 

People who are into collectibles to make a LOT of money are usually very high end and/or interested in many different types.

 

Cars to blades to coins - rarity and condition

[Geraint]

Dear Grev.

 

This is one of those repeat designs that crop up now and then, see this one, https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Japanese_-_Kozuka_with_Dragon_and_Tiger_-_Walters_51768.jpg

 

The suggestion that these are anything to do with Hirado Kunishige is one that I have not been able to substantiate, perhaps someone can help with that?

 

The example in the Caldwell sale had hakkogake by Kanzan Sato attributing it to Umetada school. If yours is that one then the price comparison exercise might have some use but if yours is one just like it then valuation would one presumes be different.  By the by the suggestion that the design is a bosun's whistle is fanciful, the roofscape idea makes more sense to me.

 

Enjoy.

 

All the best.

[kissakai]

The bosuns whistle was a strange call to me

 

No worried about the price it was just an unusual item that I liked

 

 

 

Grev UK

 

 

 

[seattle1]

Hello:

 Grev I believe the question you are asking is what would be the purchasing power of 575 Pounds in 1995 compared to what you would have to pay to get that same item, other things equal, in 2016 Pounds, and based on purchasing power calculations the answer would be about 997 Pounds. Clearly you bought the piece for less, but it isn't "the piece" as it is sans blade.

 The market price for anything depends on the market and context of buying and selling at any moment. If you bought the entire today under the conditions of 1995, which you didn't, you might have to have paid more than 575, perhaps the 997 Pounds, or it might have gone for less.

 Economics stands on the shaky foundation of lots of assumptions and lots of effects excluded from consideration. If you imagine the person who paid 575 in 1995 had sold it to you for 240, he would have lost two ways: 1. reduced purchasing power, and, 2. he would have additionally foregone the earning potential of 575 Pounds over the intervening years. Some offset for him would have been the psychic income of ownership.

 The foregoing illustrates once again the unwise belief in buying art as an "investment". Individual examples will be contrary of course, but in general it is unwise relative to strictly financial assets of the same risk.

 Arnold F.

[kissakai]

Hi Arnold

It was posted only because I found something similar to mine that seemed to clarify some points

You make very valid points about why you should buy and if bought only for a possible investment it is an unwise thing to do

As I said earlier I bought it because I liked it and not as an investment

 

 

Grev UK

[kissakai]

I've just seen this in 'Japanese Sword fitting - Naunton Collection - H.L.Joly'

A very similar pattern although not as close as the previous example and the image is not very good

 

No 628

Sentoku, chased in the shape of a closed knife "betal cutter" with dragon and karashishi at the ends. Signed Kunishige of Hirado - Late 1700

 

 

Grev UK

[Geraint]

Thanks for that Grev, at least one version is Kunishige then.

All the best.

[seattle1]

Hello Grev:

 I wasn't suggesting for a moment that you bought it as an investment; the practical illustration merely represented another example of how, if it had been bought back then as an investment, one had better have high psychic income expectations and realizations as the economic are much more tenuous. The "he" in paragraph 3 was "he", not you. By the way should anyone doubt it there is nothing whatsoever wrong with buying these things we talk about just for the enjoyment of ownership. I suspect that for the happiest collector, that is the goal.

 Arnold F.

[kissakai]

Hi Arnold

From a scholar and gentleman as you are I only get good advice and an honest opinion - thanks

It's funny how you develop as a collector, for me although I have some nice older pieces that Ford has helped me appreciate

am very proud to own tsuba by Kevin Adams and Marcus Chambers that are a delight

I'm still looking for a really nice kyo sukashi tsuba and a good kogai that are within my price range and as soon as I get them there will be something else on my 'must have' list

In the catalogue that started this post 'Southerby's Japanese Sword Fitting from the Caldwell collection?' No59 is my current favourite tsuba

 

 

Grev UK

[seattle1]

Hi Grev:

 It is always interesting to learn what people we know collect.

 Speaking of RB, as he was known, he was an active and good collector, and his reach went into East Asian ceramics as well. No. 59 is a terrific piece and should you be interested it realized 2,780 Pounds.

 Arnold F.

[kissakai]

I saw it had a high estimated price

Almost back to topic, lets assume the demand/price has gone down so if I find the owner and offer £1000 all's fine!

Obviously it would should demand a high price

I suppose it is a very long shot that it is owned by a NMB member

 

 

Grev UK

[Geraint]

There's always this one, http://www.aoijapan.com/kozuka-mumeiunsigned-omune-design ?

[kissakai]

In the words of Victor Meldrew from 'One foot in the Grave

I don't believe it!!!!!!!!!

 

After looking for info on this (rare) kozuka for quite a few months 4 examples come to light in a few days

Amazing - Thanks for all your help

 

 

Grev UK

[Baka Gaijin]

Hi guys.,

 

Was  the pointy bit intended to have a more Martial purpose?

 

(You can tell I know all the technical terms for these things...)

 

Much in the same way as the so  called Higo Ate-Gashira was intended as a means of attitude readjustment without having to actually draw a full blade?

 

 

Pip Pip