A pole arm, or sword?

[Dr Fox]

The question I am posing is:

 

Is this a pole arm blade, shortened to be a wakizashi?

At the moment it is mounted in a pole but is ill fitting.

Seeing it in hand, does lend to the thought that this would look well set up as a wakizashi.

[Gunome]

hello

 

Does the boshi has a kaeri ?

[Dr Fox]

Hi Sebastien

 

 

Yes is has, its midareba.

[Ron STL]

I suspect this is simply an unokubi wakizashi that has been shortened and not a naginata-naoshi. Here is another such blade (sorry for the poor quality photo) which ubu and signed NANTO KANABO HAYATORYŌ MASASANE SAKU (MASAZANE)

Ron STL

[Jean]

Shobu zukuri

[Dr Fox]

Thank you Ron also Jean.

 

I was on the right track but coming from the wrong direction.

I am pleased, that this is a sword in its own right.

Steps now to treat it as such.

Regards Gentlemen.

[b.hennick]

I think that it is a sword. A yari mounted as a tanto is still a yari. If someone were to lash a katana to a pole, it would still be a katana.

[Ron STL]

That's right, Barry. One of my favorite shapes is the kikuchi yari. I have one kikuchi yari, nakago modified for use as a tanto. My long ago missed opportunity was to buy a boxed, documented and ubu kikuchi yari, originally a gift to some St. Louisian during our 1904 World Fair from a visiting Japanese. Had limited knowledge and even less $$$ when it was available. Today (I think) it resides in England.

 

Jean, you mentioned shobu-zukuri. I believe shobu-zukuri shape brings the shinogi all the way up the the very tip. When it ends well behing the very tip it becomes unokubi. If it has a yokote, it becomes Kamuri-otoshi. However, I find these names interchanged a lot which doesn't help.

 

Ron STL

[Jean]

Ron,

 

I said shobu zukuri because it is what this pattern is commonly called, even if I do agree with your definition; during one of the famous contests between Jacques and Chris, I even found an example, but there are scarce.

 

http://www.ksky.ne.jp./~sumie99/styles.html

 

http://www.ksky.ne.jp./~sumie99/Shikkake.html

[Ron STL]

Makes me think of another blade here, a powerful shape that I always felt was a variation of kikuchi yari. Finally had the paper's description translated. They called it "unusual shape." Ron STL

[Dr Fox]

Look out I’m back.

My original enquiry was to ascertain, if this was a cut down pole arm, or was originally made as a wakizashi?

I see what Ron said and that suits me fine, also Jean describes its accepted shape for description, again happy, but I have a conflict with a label attached which reads thus.

{Nagamaki-naoshi late 16th early 17th century.} Which I take to mean a ‘remodelled nagamaki blade, to function as a sword, by shortening and altering the curvature of the blade’.

The label unokubi wakizashi, could also fits here, and I could well see this in a shirasaya, but it resides in the top of a pole, so either way both cant be right, or can they?

[Jean]

I believe shobu-zukuri shape brings the shinogi all the way up the the very tip. When it ends well behing the very tip it becomes unokubi. If it has a yokote, it becomes Kamuri-otoshi.

 

Ron,

 

Unokubi zukuri and kanmuri otoshi patterns have nothing to do with with the shinogi position nor with yokote. BTW, these patterns are found at 98% on tanto

 

Here under definitions given by the Kashima sisters website

 

http://www.ksky.ne.jp./~sumie99/styles.html

 

And a few examples:

 

http://sanmei.com/contents/media/A73284_W2763_PUP_E.htm

http://www.samuraiantiqueworld.com/tanto28.html

 

 

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/Naohiro2.html

 

 

Denis,

 

Naginata naoshi is the wording used by NBTHK, they don't use Nagamaki naoshi.

Your picture shows a blade with a shobu zukuri pattern, nothing less.

 

Questions:

 

Is there a kaeri with nioiguchi? (I am not interested in the boshi pattern)

What is the total blade length?

[Dr Fox]

Jean

With respect, circumstances prevent me answering now, But I will return soonest, regards.

[Dr Fox]

Questions:

 

Is there a kaeri with nioiguchi? (I am not interested in the boshi pattern)

What is the total blade length?

 

Jean

 

To answer your questions, I had to have the blade in hand, I am back now and here is the answers.

 

The nioiguchi runs to a point, just above where the shinoji meets the mune-kado, in the kissaki. There is therefor no kaeri.

The nagasa of the blade is 38.2cms.

 

I hope I have understood, and answered correctly.

[Dr Fox]

hello

 

Does the boshi has a kaeri ?

 

Sebastien

 

My apologies to you, as its obvious I misunderstood the question. Looking at my answer to Jean, it conflicts exactly opposite to my previous answer to you.

 

Can you please put it down to age thing.

 

Thanks.

[Gunome]

Hello,

 

If your blade has no kaeri there is probabilities, but not certainty, that your wakizashi was a naginata of nagamaki before.

 

Sébastien

[Dr Fox]

So there lies another clue, and the reason for the enquiries as to kaeri, so I am to suppose that this feature could, be a determining factor as to the original purpose of the blade.

 

Sebastein, I think I am happy, that your post answers my original question, my regards

[Jean]

Denis,

 

Do you think it is possible to have a clear picture of both side of the boshi?

[Dr Fox]

Yes Jean I will do just that, its going to be tomorrow, would the first 2 inches of blade do or more?.

I will tight crop looking for details.

Thanks.

[Jean]

It should be perfect Denis. Thanks