Q:Best lighting for Hamon exam (LED,tungsten, halogen, CFL)?

[kaigunair]

As a mainly tosogu collector, I don't have as much experience in this area. However, I have been tasked with setting up an area that would assist in nihonto kantei, which includes acquiring light fixtures. I'm looking for some advice of set ups that have worked best in a larger hall kantei setting. I have the tosogu lighting covered.

 

So I'm not really looking for an academic discussion of what should work, but actual experience with a set up that has worked really well.

 

The club usually uses a string of lights hung on a wall, containing both halogen and clear incandescent bulbs against a black drop cloth. Usually an ok set up, but I was finding it very hard to look at what turned out to be an ko-aoi blade. It doesn't help that the room overhead lights are of the florescent type. It seems florescent light is good at showing jigane, but not so much the true hamon under the hadori, especially if nio based (in this case, I think it was suguha based ko-chogi or something).

 

I'm currently thinking of placing the entire setup under a small collapsible tent/gazebo to block out some overhead ambient light. I might try to use the black drop cloth to also partition "stalls", with each stall having its own lighting setup. Was wondering if there is an ideal incandescent bulb wattage, or if LED or halogen lights worked better. Any experience with multiple bulb set ups or is single better? Is a black velvet cloth background the best or is white, grey or some other color more useful?

 

If there was a particular set up that really made the hamon pop, I'd really be interested in hearing about that.

 

Thank you in advance for the advice.

[Marius]

A simple LED lamp works fine for me :-)

[kaigunair]

A simple LED lamp works fine for me :-)

 

thanks Mariuszk. do you have any guidance regarding particular size of led panel? I'm also wondering if variable brightness and spectrum is helpful.

example: http://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Barndoor ... mera+panel

 

don't mean to make a mountain of a mole hill, but am trying to figure out something that would scale up and for public use (also that would last for a long time). ideally, user would be able to control any light adjustments (remote or inline control), but not sure if this is possible in a public set up.

[Marius]

Junichi, I have a small lamp with maybe 12 little LEDs...

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hello,

 

At our annual study group club meetings we simply used Shop Clamp-on type light bulb holders (with probably 100 watt incandescent bulbs), one attached in front of each sword/table at a height of about 7 feet. It always seemed to work out fine. Pay close attention to space for each sword in all directions, so no mishaps occur.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Junichi, the answer depends on whether you're just looking at the blade, or are planning to take photos.

 

Our sword club has experimented with your question for at least a decade, & our result was a bit surprising. The very best way we've found to look at a blade is to use the full Moon as your light source. That being somewhat impractical most of the time, a single-bulb LED light came in second, followed by (surprisingly) a handheld fluorescent tube light something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Snap-on-13-Watt-Fluorescent-Angle-Light-Handheld-Angle-Work-Tool-Bright-Handy-/281270932068?pt=US_Hand_Tools&hash=item417d0dd264. The flashlight need not be powerful to allow you to see a ton of details, & the one I use is only 1 inch long.

 

In all of these cases, it's assumed that only one person will be viewing the blade at a time.

 

Ken

[kaigunair]

Thanks for the suggestions. So LED followed by florescent. No one likes halogen?

 

A camera light stand with directional shutters, with an led bulb might work then. I'm guessing a single point of light reflecting on the surface is needed? I was hoping an led panel light would illuminate more of the area, perhaps reducing the amount of motion needed to view a blade, thereby decreasing space.

 

The idea of the set up is to enable multiple set ups side by side, probably one person per set up with at most two.

 

Anyone have experience with larger Led panel?

 

I'm now curious whether a photo set up would work with live viewing. I take it most or all of the hamon has to be visible at one time with that set up...

[John A Stuart]

The NBTHK taikai always have had single source incandescent 60 watt bulbs for live viewing. One for each sword at the tables. John

[kaigunair]

This is the lamps I found for tosogu. Built in magnifier, swivel base, florescent bulb with better color correction. Normally used for crafting, esp quilts and knitting where color is important. I bought two second hand as they aren't that cheap at retail.

 

I took a risk when I bought them, but thankfully it seemed they were very warmly received by members this past meeting. Fred and Tom also set up a separate table just for tosogu viewing and to demo the lamps, but not sure if this will be ongoing or not.

 

Not sure what other clubs normally do for tosogu, but I felt this was an experiment that turned out well.

 

If single incandescent bulb is the way to go for most on the board, I will construct a set up around those as they are also probably the least expensive option. But I'm also open to alt light sources since my own limited experience makes me hope there is something better out there....

[kaigunair]

Bump

 

Anyone used large LED panels? Halogen lamp vs 60 watt tungsten or single LED?

 

 

Feel free to pm me with your experience/recommendation.

[Ken-Hawaii]

The large LED panels are great for low-voltage area lighting, Junichi, but as there are multiple LEDs, the reflections get pretty weird.

 

Ken

[drbvac]

""Shop Clamp-on type light bulb holders (with probably 100 watt incandescent bulbs), one attached in front of each sword/table""

 

Franco: So you actually illuminate the blades from the same side of the blade as the camera or viewer - Ahhhh - I have always tried on the other side and get stuck with reflections on the blade of the bulb/light/filament depending on the light source - I can see fluorescent not doing this and I know the led lights in my display cabinet are pretty good as well

 

Does the back light make the hamon and other details visible?

[Toryu2020]

Junichi -

The 60 watt bulb is most popular in Japan from my limited experience. At the NBTHK and NTHK regular monthly meetings there is overhead flourescent lighting and nothing else. A plain black background is less of a distraction for the eye, and does not reflect light, this is why we like it for our meetings at the NCJSC. That said a "viewing tent" might be a lot of time and trouble for little additional gain.

 

Halogen seems to do a lot to highlight NIE and so we usually have at least one on the string as a alternative to the 60w. If you find the right kind of LED it might be a bonus because there is no heat generated, always a problem.

 

A clamp lamp makes sense for your application because you most likely will be dealing with changing environments where a string may not be usable. I think this is a great idea, if you could put it together as a tent as envisioned, remember it has to be stupid simple so that you or any member of the club could set it up and break it down. It will be interesting to see what we can come up with.

 

As for the lights for kodogu - we may need to look at using the small table in the corner or other set up but I think it will be very nice to have these at each meeting regardless of where we set them up.

-t

[Loco Al]

Our sword club has experimented with your question for at least a decade, & our result was a bit surprising. The very best way we've found to look at a blade is to use the full Moon as your light source.

 

I apologize in advance, but I can't resist.

 

The Werewolf's Nihonto Club!

 

Alan

[Toryu2020]

Alan

 

to clarify; in the Tokyo meetings there are the 60 watt bulbs, the florescent overhead and then nothing else...

[Loco Al]

There's an idea!

 

I would like to formally request the administrators to allow me to change my username to: Werewolf

 

Of course I will still sign my posts with Alan.

 

Moonfully,

 

Alan

[kaigunair]

Thanks all.

 

I completely understand that those who have been studying for many years can probably find what they're looking for under any light, just as a master craftsman (or phoenix foundation agent) could probably make whatever he wanted out of a pocketknife . But I'm hoping better lighting makes the difference between knowing what to look for, and being able to teach a neophyte what to look for (i.e., myself). I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel, and while a light source that costs x3 or x4 more than a normal bulb does not equal to x3 or x4 the viewing ability, its the incremental improvement to those who aren't as experienced which I hope is worth it. In the case of a show venue, the time save by better lighting allowing quicker examination and more users at a time is a top goal.

 

I found a great article by Darcy on photo lighting for nihonto from 2003. He uses a combo set of up florescent tube and halogen spots, and mirrors. Pretty neat stuff, but it does say that it takes advantage of the fact that the camera's eye sees less than what the human eye picks up. Its also imported to learn how to properly hold and move the blade around as part of the nihonto learning experience.

 

Hmmm, perhaps I might see if the club will allow me to try a set up where a user can choose between the type of light he would like...might make for a interesting experiment and hard feedback. Since I have to pick up some clip housing and extension chords anyway, might as well try a few different bulbs. Tentatively, maybe a single pole of lights consisting of the following which can be turned on/off individually (or in combo) by the user:

1) 60 watt incandescent bulb (or 100 watt bulb?)

2) LED blub

3) Halogen (have a photo quality lowel tota)

4) FLR blub

*5) perhaps a small photo quality LED panel light if I can find one....

 

Regarding the blocking out of ambient light, yes, I again had some "out of the box" ideas which I sent off to Tom. For a novice like me, its the overhead room lights which I feel I am constantly fighting against, but I know you don't want to have a dark room full of sharp blades...

http://www.wayfair.com/Privacy-Pop-Bed- ... 9-PVPP1000

http://www.globalindustrial.com/g/outdo ... amp-canopy

 

If anything comes from my OCD musings about lighting, I'll write back what worked or didn't....

 

Thanks all.

[Loco Al]

 

Pretty neat stuff, but it does say that it takes advantage of the fact that the camera's eye sees less than what the human eye picks up. Its also imported to learn how to properly hold and move the blade around as part of the nihonto learning experience.

 

 

I disagree. If anything, the camera sometimes picks up more than you can see with the naked eye. Especially with a macro lens and proper lighting.

 

Alan

[kaigunair]

Quick report back. Got to do the set up today. Didn't get as much use as I hoped since it was set up off to the side, but what use it got was positive (or maybe those who thought it was unnecessary didn't bother to let me know ). I did have to assure a few people who asked, that I wasn't taking over Bob McCoy's job, and it wasn't an area set up for photographing (no way I want that job!). One person did use it to help photograph some hard to make out lacquer inscription on an old mirror he brought...

 

People liked the low watt LED lamp and some good comments about the uber bright 300watt halogen. I thought the latter was a bit too powerful. The low watt LED might have approximated the "full moon" idea; more than one of the members mentioned the moonlight was was the best light to see uttsuri. Too bad I don't have such a blade to play with in the moonlight!

 

The kantei blade was used on it toward the end of the meeting, and I believe the 53watt halogen inside a normal bulb fitting was used to get the most out of that blade. It was a nambokucho bizen with what I thought was some sort of ko-gunome/choji under normal lighting but turned out to be kataochi-gunome-midare in suguha. Also had high uttsuri which was hard to see under the normal lighting. I wasn't paying attention when the final smith was released, but it may have been Kanemitsu.

 

One member mentioned it was good to have different lights because different aspects would come out under each type. So if anything, just getting different perspectives on the same blade using different lights was a good thing. Might be a hit at the august show for just such a reason.

 

Tom made a suggestion that perhaps in the future, might want to try different colored lights to see what effect, if any, that might have. Knowing it does nothing would also be, well, something. So I have some research and brainstorming to do.

 

I think it goes up and breaks down fairly easily enough, so hopefully will get a chance to set it up again and get more feedback. Just weighs a lot altogether and I don't usually get close parking! I might try to have two such stations for the august show, but probably with only 2-3 choices versus all 5 options....