george trotter Posted October 10, 2013 Report Posted October 10, 2013 Why is the outline of the hamon not followed in hadori polish?
Grey Doffin Posted October 10, 2013 Report Posted October 10, 2013 Because the polisher is inept? Lazy? Grey
kusunokimasahige Posted October 10, 2013 Report Posted October 10, 2013 I have seen polishers who proudly present their stuff online in Keisho polish who have absolutely no clue whatsoever about the sword's own original hamon so I tend to agree with Grey
Jean Posted October 10, 2013 Report Posted October 10, 2013 To have the answer you have to ask yourself: - what is hadori polish? - how is it done?
kusunokimasahige Posted October 10, 2013 Report Posted October 10, 2013 http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/hadori.htm
Jean Posted October 10, 2013 Report Posted October 10, 2013 Read carefully John's article and pounder it. Look at the pictures of this Tokuju, look at the hadori hamon, there are togari which are not outlined in the hadori. It is a question of togishi and compromises.
runagmc Posted October 11, 2013 Report Posted October 11, 2013 Since hadori is done with finger stones, the smaller the hamon pattern, the more time consuming and difficult it would be to follow exactly...
george trotter Posted October 11, 2013 Author Report Posted October 11, 2013 Reading the article that expresses Jon Bowhay's opinion on sashikomi-hadori I note that he says it is the feature of the hamon itself which determines which polish is used. For example: "Sashikomi is primarily of value in dealing with Hamon that have a very tight Nioiguchi. It is of a technical nature by and large and does not allow for the great diversity of Hamon such as secondary Nie, Nioi and hataraki around and within the Hamon". Can I ask...what type of hamon appears in the pic, strongly tight Nioiguchi line or a great diversity around and within the Hamon? Which polish did this hamon demand? Regards,
Lee Bray Posted October 11, 2013 Report Posted October 11, 2013 Wasn't this blade established as a non traditional Showato? As such, a proper polish would be worth more than the sword so maybe the client, the polisher or both didn't think it was worth the time to do a proper polish.
cabowen Posted October 11, 2013 Report Posted October 11, 2013 Which polish did this hamon demand? A cheap one... George, this horse is really quite dead.....poking at a low end polish on a low end blade (showa-to?) won't bring it back....
george trotter Posted October 11, 2013 Author Report Posted October 11, 2013 I know the blade is low end showato, (it was just an example picture), but the question I asked remains unanswered, so no, not a dead horse guys, I'd really like an answer...why doesn't hadori follow the hamon? Or to put it another way, will someone please post a pic of a hadori polish that does follow the hamon outline? I ask again as I can't remember seeing a hadori that does follow the hamon and I'd like to know if it does happen. Regards, PS...I can post a more appropriate blade/hamon/hadori polish picture that illustrates the same point if it will make the question easier to answer.
Jean Posted October 11, 2013 Report Posted October 11, 2013 more or less: http://www.nihonto.com/yoshioka1.html
george trotter Posted October 11, 2013 Author Report Posted October 11, 2013 Not a good example Jean. I know that such a hamon tends to suggest hadori because of the lack of tight nioiguchi, but I was asking about examples such as that illustrated in my post. As a matter of fact I have a converse question also, I have a hadori polished sword that seems to defy even the claims made about sprays of Nie, Nioi and hataraki etc and ...it has portions/peaks of the hamon/activity rising above and through the hadori edge line. Why is this left undone? Regards,
Lee Bray Posted October 11, 2013 Report Posted October 11, 2013 I'd really like an answer...why doesn't hadori follow the hamon? Because it can't.
Jean Posted October 11, 2013 Report Posted October 11, 2013 Hadori is made by fingerstones, George and you must apply a strong pressure with the thumb. Try to follow thus a hamon applying such pressure, as says Lee, it is impossible.
george trotter Posted October 11, 2013 Author Report Posted October 11, 2013 Does this mean that it is the mechanics of the polish that determines the "look" of the hamon rather than the hamon as made by and intended by the tosho? Geo.
Lee Bray Posted October 11, 2013 Report Posted October 11, 2013 The mechanics of any polish determine the "look" of the hamon, no? George, we know your preferences. Some of us are in agreement, depending on the sword. Sashikomi can be manipulated; just read 'The Art of Japanese Sword Polishing' by Setsuo Takaiwa to see how. A vinegar etch of the whole blade could be construed as a 'sashikomi' polish. Is that what you want to see?
george trotter Posted October 11, 2013 Author Report Posted October 11, 2013 Ah, no Lee, certainly not. I don't want any deceptions at all. Maybe I should ask, if the fingerstone size and polishing techniques/mechanics of hadori determine the "outline" of the hamon, and, as hadori is by far the most superior of polishes (as many say) and is "here to stay", shouldn't the tosho stop making complicated hamon altogether and just do wide suguba (wide as a fingerstone) or a nice notare or an even smooth toran that "fits" the polishing style?...that way there would be no chance of the effect as shown in the OP pic or as on my own sword where "active peaks' protrude up into the ji. Why continue producing outlines that the togishi ignore or can't polish? Just logic?
Lee Bray Posted October 11, 2013 Report Posted October 11, 2013 Logic and art...such a compatible mix...
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