New to my Tosogu Collection...

[Soshin]

Hi Everyone,

 

This morning I was taking photographs of a tsuba I purchased in Japan while on my honeymoon as a souvenir. It was purchased at the fine shop/museum located in central Tokyo named Ginza Choshuya. Here is the is the direct link to their website: http://www.choshuya.co.jp/. The tsuba came along with a really nice padded Kiri wood box and NBTHK Tokubetsu kicho papers issued in 1970 with Hosokawa Moritatsu name on it who was the first chairmen (Jpn. Kaicho) of the NBTHK from 1948 until 1970. As I have did some research on this topic this practice of placing the chairmen's name on every Tokubetsu kicho paper issued by the NBTHK main branch in Tokyo was stopped after Hosokawa-sensei passed away. All later papers of this level only have the submitter's name. I had a very interesting discussing with Bob Benson via telephone before he left for the Chicago show who remembers Hosokawa-sensei.

 

As for the tsuba it really has a wonderful impression and every time I look at it continues to amaze me with something new. To begin with the basics it is a large iron tsuba at 8.6 X 8.6 cm. The tsuba displays a remarkable change in thickness from 7.0 mm at the taka dote-mimi style rim to as thin as 2.0 mm thickness around the seppa-dai. The design on the thin plate is of peonies flowers (botan) along a complex arabesque pattern of vines and leaves (karakusa) done using a special carving technique (kebori) with highlighted done in a abraded silver and gold inlay. The pattern is not the same on both sides. The ko-sukashi design is of a butterfly (cho). In the center of the ko-sukashi design it is small insert of jet black colored shakudo.

The taka dote-mimi style rim display wonderful fine grain tekkotsu as well as a sequence of round carved designs that remind me of a simple Buddhist rosary. Here is a link to show what I am referring to http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bracelet_buddhist_rosary_03.JPG.

 

This is what I have for now. Every time I look at this tsuba I see something new. I remember being told this is a good thing when it comes to Japanese swords and tosogu as well as art in general. I am planning to write about this tsuba as well as a few other Nanban tsuba in my collection in a upcoming JSSUS article I am writing about my travels to Dejima island now located in Nagasaki City and Hirado island. Please fell free to comment and discuss.

 

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Drago]

Very interesting.

 

But... Does that mean you have to find a rectangular seppa???

[Soshin]

Hi Tobias H.,

 

Good question from my experience these type of rectangular shaped seppa-dai are common on early Nanban tsuba. Here is another Nanban tsuba from my collection dating I think from the Momoyama Period. I have also seen these type of retangular seppa-dai on published examples in the NBTHK monthly journal and elsewhere.

 

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[christianmalterre]

Very nice David!

Excellent choice-it´s in many aspects very interesting indeed!

 

question:

is this an Shakudo insert here?

Does "this" go entirely "through" or is it surfacely fixed by zogan manner?

(see picture)

Christian

[Soshin]

Hi Christian M.,

 

Yes that is the shakudo insert. It is not a inlay but a small sold piece of shakudo inserted into the very small space. Ginza Choshuya had this tsuba on display on the first floor of the store but I think it was recently arrived at the store on 04/09/2013. I shopped by on the morning of 04/12/2013 and spent the whole morning looking around viewing a few tsuba in hand and drinking some green tea. They had a display tag written in Japanese that said "Kachushi tsuba" and "Edo Jidai Shoki" if my memory is correct. I forgot to ask for the display tag. I have since emailed them in Japanese to see if they can email me the information they had on the display tag.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Henry Wilson]

Nice tsuba David. I am glad you got something to remember your honeymoon by.

On my smartphone, the metal looks very good and makes me think of Owari type metal. Overall the piece reminds me a bit of Nobuie

[Soshin]

Hi Henry W.,

 

The glossiness of the plate surface and the patina of this tsuba is just wonderful. The iron has a really nice feel to it in hand as well. I was kind of thinking the same thing. The kebori carving technique and ko-sukashi was used by Nobuie for his designs along the plate. If Nobuie ever made a Nanban tsuba it would look something like this. :lol:

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Soshin]

Hi Everyone,

 

Been spending my time over the weekend translating the NBTHK shinsa document. I noticed something interesting about the attribution. The direct attribution isn't "Nanban" but is "Nanban shaku". Does this mean the tsuba was made in a southern barbarian style? Also it should be noted that this the first Tokubetsu Kicho papered Nanban styled tsuba I have ever seen.

On a related note does anyone have or know references for the early Edo Period tsuba maker referred to as Hizen Nobuie? I would like to do a comparison of workmenship.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[rkg]

David,

 

Elliott Long (shibui swords) has has a Hizen Nobuiye piece on his site from Bob Haynes:

 

http://www.shibuiswords.com/haynesTsu34.html

 

Best,

 

rkg

(Richard George)

[Soshin]

Hi Richard G.,

 

Thanks for the reply. That is a good example of what I am talking about but that tsuba is considerably younger then my tsuba. I should contact Elliott Long about my tsuba as he has a intest in Nanban tsuba. The early Edo period age estimate of my tsuba by Ginza Choshuya I would consider very conservative. Noticing the similarities between the gold inlay, large size, and shape of seppa-dai my tsuba to my other early example might mean my dates from the Momoyama Period.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[christianmalterre]

i fully do agree with your´s observations here David...

the whole attribution does seem me typical conservative in many aspects (does equally but not puzzle me,it´s typical Japanese behaviour,as you do know yoursself)...had this feeling already before,when seeing it here on previous post you set...

In fact-i can not really see Namban here-to say it honest...

What shall be Namban here?

Katchushi yes-and an excellent forged ita ditto-an intriguing refined stylism and excellent composition(if in fact the Hitsu Ana,Diamond/Jewel,Butterfly(?) had this form already on the Katchushi plate)

actually think the ground-plate is to ben placed even earlier-eventually an Katchushi(in high esteem)which latter got overworked in taste of new owner?

Possible...Early Edo taste had crowded influences from multiple art taste...

Earlier than Edo-me personally doupt,do but not hold hands in fire equally....

Either way-Intriguing-Very Nice!

Very rarely have seen Tsuba which immediately did attract mine interest that way...

As i said already in mine former post-Excellent choice!(very much better than your´s other Tsuba you did post here in comparence-even also this one is very interesting equally of course!)

 

Christian

[Pete Klein]

David - you have the omote and ura listings reversed on your pictures.

[John A Stuart]

I can not read the two kanji before 南蛮作 in the description and that may change the meaning, but, doesn't Namban saku mean actually made outside of Japan and imported? I believe some tsuba were imported from the mainland that were made to Japanese taste. Why a katchushi designation as well as Namban? No, I think not. If in the style of Namban tsuba and domestically made they would have used 形 kei not 作 saku, would they not? John

[Soshin]

Hi Christian M.,

 

Not comely sure I understand everything in your post but we completely agree on the most important point that this is a very good tsuba. The NBTHK felt the same way as Tokubetsu Kicho was the highest ranked paper below Juyo when it was issued.

 

Hi Pete K.,

 

Thanks for rely. Wasn't sure which side was omote and which side in ura when taking the photos. Still not sure so your reasoning would be helpful and educational to the members and visitors of the NMB. While your at it what is your opinion on the attribution on this old paper written six years before I was born?

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Pete Klein]

First off just look at the paper as omote is always shown if mumei, otherwise mei corresponding surfaces. You can also look at the tsuba and see where the tagane fitting punches are located - also omote (just beneath the sekigane in this case). There are some times the tagane are seen on both sides when it has been refitted multiple times and they are necessary to close the metal more closely. As for the attribution, early Edo Nanban. The seppa dai says it all.

[Soshin]

I can not read the two kanji before 南蛮作 in the description and that may change the meaning, but, doesn't Namban saku mean actually made outside of Japan and imported? I believe some tsuba were imported from the mainland that were made to Japanese taste. Why a katchushi designation as well as Namban? No, I think not. If in the style of Namban tsuba and domestically made they would have used 形 kei not 作 saku, would they not? John

Hi John S.,

 

In answer to your questions. Style and extreme thickness of rim and thinness of the plate at the seppa-dai, kei-bori carving style, and ko-sukashi design makes me think it is a katchushi tsuba. The other two Kanji above "Nanban saku" I think are for "mumei (無銘)" but it is really hard to read given the writing style. I agree with you interpretation of what "Nanban shaku" means. It would seem the NBTHK was thinking this tsuba was made in Canton, China and exported to Japan. I was reading in Tsuba An Anesthetic Study that this was done in Hizen Province circa 1500.

 

Hi Christian M.,

 

All of the abraded nunome zogan (which is seen on a few katchushi tsuba as well) along the plate and seppa-dai plus the design elements such as peonies flowers (botan) along a complex arabesque pattern of vines and leaves (karakusa) makes me think Nanban.

 

Hi Pete K.,

 

Thanks for the information. I see where I was in error. Normally I get this right but was incorrect this time around. I will change my notes. In regards to the age I basically agreed when I purchased the tsuba but now have some questions specifically in regards to the NBTHK attribution. Normally NBTHK would just use the term "Nanban" on a paper to describe a Nanban tsuba from the Edo Period.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Soshin]

Hi Everyone,

 

Ginza Choshuya contacted me via email late yesterday. Here is a link to their write up about the tsuba in Japanese: http://www.finesword.co.jp/sale/kodougu/htm/1051_2000/1751_1800/1783/k1783.htm. The photographs they did of the rim nicely display the details such as the tekkotsu. :D They were thinking it was a Katchushi tsuba done in a Nanban style which I agree with. They date the tsuba as being made during the early Edo Period. Comments and questions for discussion are always welcome.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Guido]

IMO, the paper says "mumei namban-shu":

***

Doh, picture deleted since that's what the link (posted while I was typing) says, too.

[Soshin]

IMO, the paper says "mumei namban-shu":

 

Hi Guido S.,

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. I think your right shu (手) means "hand, worker, help" as well as "means, way, trick, move, technique, and workmanship". Therefore the most appropriate English translation of the NBTHK shinsa attribution would be "no signature, southern barbarian workmanship".

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[cabowen]

Interesting in that the seller's description says it is katchushi work done with a Nanban like design.

[John A Stuart]

甲冑師 Katchushi huh? design in Namban style? Curiouser and curiouser!! John

[christianmalterre]

Hmmmh????

more Katchushi than Namban in mine eyes...

But?-LOL! John-who knows???...it´s kind of "fama nihil est celerius" like always with such vague attributions given,in mine eyes...

Such-let´s study,study,study....

Christian

[Soshin]

Hi Christian M.,

 

I don't see any scandal nor are things traveling swiftly.:lol: I agree with the NBTHK shinsa results and the observations made by Ginza Choshuya. I will be lucky to add much more information. Here is a photograph I did of a garden vase at Glover Garden in Nagasaki, Japan during my vacation. The garden dates from the Meiji Period. Notice the similarities in the shape of the design on the top of the vase to the center of the butterfly openwork design on my tsuba.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[christianmalterre]

Laugh!

Funny thing here for barbecue evening... :D

David-that´s Imari school blue white,an typical early Meiji Japanese garden seat...

The Imari-when starting their´s blue-white,were influenced by the Kano-school of painting...

(the crossed blades-an "retroperspective"(loan),the japenese took after they saw how Dresden Porcellain got priced in Europe during 19th..)

Many-if not 80%+ were massproduced for export...reason why Imari still is not valuable despite some very rare objects...

This seat here definitely but is not that old-it´s Meiji...

 

Personally still can not see Namban in your´s Tsuba here...LOL!

 

Christian

[Henry Wilson]

For what it is worth, the dragon in the design has 5 toes which would indicate Chinese origin. I have a feeling the stool is a modern made item.

[Soshin]

Hi Everyone,

 

I noticed somethings when I as examining tsuba this evening under low magnification. The worn gold inlay (kin nunome-zogan) is confined to the area of the seppa-dai and border around kogai hitsu-ana. I have seen this similar pattern of gold inlay on other early Nanban tsuba before. I also notice between the ke-bori carved designs the surface of the plate displays nice fine hammer marks (tsuchimei-ji). The rim displays both fine and linear tekkotsu. The photograph on http://www.finesword.co.jp/sale/kodougu/htm/1051_2000/1751_1800/1783/k1783.htm website shows a nice example of the thin linear tekkotsu found along the rim. Just some fun observations this tsuba is a keeper in my book. :D

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Pete Klein]

Most likely from a gold foil seppa.

[Soshin]

Hi Pete K.,

 

I see the fine cross-hatching pattern the gold was inlay with around the seppa-dai as well as the kogai hitsu-ana. Small amounts of the gold inlays are still present. This is visible if you look closely at it in hand and is more apparent under low magification. My current photographs are at 40mm which is the maximum for my lens set. I would need to get a good macro lens to show the detail I am talking about. I'll try to bring this tsuba to the next show I attend for more people to see it in hand.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Pete Klein]

It is a bit unusual to lose that much nunome unless it was cleaned at some point which of course is a possibility. What can happen is if there was a gold seppa in place you can get rubbing of the gold onto high spots of the tsuba which can actually mimic nunome but of course the gold would be confined to the seppa dai and adjacent areas. If the gold remnants are found on the periphery of the kogai hitsu ana then it would most likely be from purposeful placement. Perhaps you can find someone who has a macro lens and transport the image?

Looking forward to seeing it...

[Soshin]

Hi Pete K.,

 

If the plate has been cleaned it wasn't a recent cleaning seeing how I have a 42+ year old photograph of the tsuba with the shinsa paper and it looks identical. I am going back to the raw images I have of the tsuba and see if I can crop a image showing the detail I am referring to along the seppa-dai. If that doesn't help I will looking around with someone with a nice camera and a maro lens set. If it was cleaned at some point it was to likely done to remove rust that had already damaged the inlays.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles