Alex A Posted February 9, 2013 Report Posted February 9, 2013 I have started to look at information regarding these blades, wide tachi with large o-kissaki (odanbira). From what i can gather most are unsigned and some are signed by appraisers due to orignal mei being cut off. I have already bought one shinto mumei blade and said to myself i would only stick to signed blades in the future, Now i am on the lookout for an old tachi as stated above. Are o suriage tachi of the era above more acceptable in terms of lost mei? and to find one signed, from a reasonably good smith (with papers), how much are we talking?.. Alex Quote
paulb Posted February 9, 2013 Report Posted February 9, 2013 Hi Alex, Signed Koto blades are rare and command a premium. Signed Nambokucho blades are very scarce, mainly because they were all shortened to be used at a later point in history. If you want a signed blade from this period by a good smith and in good condition it will cost a lot. Suriage koto blades in good condition and by good smiths also cost a lot. Take a look at some of the websites specialising in good quality pieces such as nihonto.com, Nihonto.ca, and Nihonto.us these will give you an indication of pricing for good swords from this period. Also be careful there are very many tired and worn out koto blades in existence which have very little merit. I have always found when I set myself a plan something came along which threw it in to confusion. Most of the blades I now have were not on my "must have" list when I was looking but while looking they came up and were just too good (in my opinion) to ignore. So the plan went out of the window. For what its worth I have no signed swords within my ever decreasing collection. Quote
nagamaki - Franco Posted February 9, 2013 Report Posted February 9, 2013 If you look up NBTHK standards you will find Nambokucho and older mumei blades elgible to receive Tokubetsu Hozon and even reach Juyo level papers, if they meet all the requirements. As for price, search and check with the online dealers. Sword shows such as the upcoming Florida show would be a good place to shop. Take your time, ask questions, and don't be timid about seeking advice. Quote
Alex A Posted February 9, 2013 Author Report Posted February 9, 2013 Cheers again Paul, Franco, im in no rush so i will just see what crops up. As you say Paul, it is easy to get side tracked. Il check out the sites that have been mentioned. Alex Quote
sanjuro Posted February 10, 2013 Report Posted February 10, 2013 Alex. In thirty years of collecting koto tachi, I have only four. I will not buy Osuriage tachi because they have been significantly altered and are no longer tachi. Signed ubu tachi from the Nambokucho period or the Sengoku jidai are to say the least, not common. Patience is the key word here....... Occasionally, a blade that is ubu and not polished to death becomes available. :D Quote
Alex A Posted February 10, 2013 Author Report Posted February 10, 2013 Hi Keith, from what i have seen every blade in my price range is o suriage. I may need to adjust my sights and thinking :?. Alex. Quote
sanjuro Posted February 10, 2013 Report Posted February 10, 2013 Did I mention they aren't cheap. Probably not........ So I'll mention it now. They aren't cheap. No koshirae either....... Quote
Jean Posted February 10, 2013 Report Posted February 10, 2013 In shirasaya, something decent let's say from 10k$ to 800k$ or more. Quote
Alex A Posted February 10, 2013 Author Report Posted February 10, 2013 Keith, ive gathered there not cheep, Jean $10k ish hopefully will find me something decent. Alex. Quote
cabowen Posted February 10, 2013 Report Posted February 10, 2013 $10K might get you an example of a Nanbokucho period o-suriage tachi but one wonders what kind of example that will be? Most likely tired and probably with some rather glaring flaws. It is like wanting to buy a Ferrari for $10K. You might find one, but it will be a wreck. On the other hand, $10K can buy a reasonably good Shinto blade and a WWII era blade by a top smith. I have been advised many times, and always found it to be good advice, to buy the best blades I can afford. Old doesn't always mean better. In any case, I wish you the best of luck in your hunt. Quote
Alex A Posted February 10, 2013 Author Report Posted February 10, 2013 Hi Chris, all of the blades i have owned have been shinto, im looking for a change, something older, any other suggestions within my budget? Alex. Quote
sanjuro Posted February 10, 2013 Report Posted February 10, 2013 Alex. At 10k in big blades like Nambo examples, expect some small kitae ware. Mesame hada particularly as has been discussed elsewhere, is particularly prone and is to be expected. Also, if there has been machi okuri and only a small suriage, it is OK as the sword has almost certainly been remounted. Look for classical nakago shapes if possible. There are also a few Sengoku blades around that are worth a look despite the fact they do not have a good reputation. It may be that this is where you will find something worth buying. Given your keen interest in these blades I'm pretty sure you will know what to look for. Be prepared to spend a little over your 10k ..Good Luck!!!! Quote
cabowen Posted February 10, 2013 Report Posted February 10, 2013 Hi Chris, all of the blades i have owned have been shinto, im looking for a change, something older, any other suggestions within my budget? Alex. Try older tanto. They are cheaper than tachi and you should be able to get something in a better state of preservation and/or higher quality, for your money. Look at later Koto blades. There are some groups off the beaten path that aren't as popular. From time to time, good blades appear by these smiths who weren't famous. Even monkeys fall from trees.... Quote
Alex A Posted February 10, 2013 Author Report Posted February 10, 2013 Ive seen blades for around 10k, one in particular caught my eye, tokobetsu hozen, attributed to Oomiya, maybe go for something like this, healthy blade, no kizu, nice large kissaki, looks a good blade. Alex. Quote
Jean Posted February 10, 2013 Report Posted February 10, 2013 Chris, I bought my Naoe Shizu a few years ago for 12,7 k$ and If I have some money one day I shall submit it to Juyo. It was submitted to hozon as it was attributed to Shizu. No need to waste any money for the TH, the question is the Juyo level. Same for my Tegai/Hosho I got for 13k$, Darcy thinks it is Juyo level. So one can find very good blades not far from 10k$. 1 Quote
sanjuro Posted February 10, 2013 Report Posted February 10, 2013 Chris has a good point, but if you insist on tachi I have found it better to get one in old polish. Hadori polish means recent and maybe the last of the blade's life has been ground away. Whatever you get its going to be a balance of how tired the blade is against how old it is. Its a different prospect to a shinto or shinshinto blade. Quote
Alex A Posted February 10, 2013 Author Report Posted February 10, 2013 Cheers Keith, from a financial point of view that makes sense. Funnily enough i was talking to someone at christmas who has just got a rarther large tachi in, it was in old polish, not sure if he is actually selling it, may contact him for its details, just out of curiosity. Alex. Quote
drbvac Posted February 10, 2013 Report Posted February 10, 2013 I have a koto tachi from a smith in a lesser desired area that is everything I wanted and it wasn't too expensive - well at least not 25 years ago. It is O-suriage signed Kanemitsu of Mino - dated to 1330's = 34" , with funbari and no serious flaws. Now if it was Kanemitsu of Bizen ? Quote
Alex A Posted February 10, 2013 Author Report Posted February 10, 2013 Hi Brian, id be happy with a sword like that, maybe thats the way i should go. Plenty of time to think on it, thanks for all your advice Alex. Quote
John A Stuart Posted February 10, 2013 Report Posted February 10, 2013 Brian, How can it be signed and osuriage and have funbari? John Quote
Jean Posted February 10, 2013 Report Posted February 10, 2013 John, Brian could tell you but then he'll have to kill you :D Quote
drbvac Posted February 10, 2013 Report Posted February 10, 2013 Have to kill myself if I don't learn how to keep these straight -ubu - hunbari - Quote
John A Stuart Posted February 10, 2013 Report Posted February 10, 2013 Thanks Brian. A pic is a thousand words, eh? Funbari is a good word and is the limited taper in the first 10 or so cm above the machi. Is this what you see in your sword or is he refering to the taper of the sword as a whole? It is funny, sort of, 踏ん張り funbari, refers to standing with your feet spread to brace one's self more firmly, exactly what it does at the base of the sword. Why Tsuruta san transliterates it as hunbari I don't know. John Quote
drbvac Posted February 10, 2013 Report Posted February 10, 2013 Funbari / hunbari - tapers in about 1mm - 1-5 mm in the first 6 -9 " Quote
drbvac Posted February 11, 2013 Report Posted February 11, 2013 Can't get away with anything here can you - see why I could never sell it-= OK -- 1444 but it is "KOTO" Quote
Jean Posted February 11, 2013 Report Posted February 11, 2013 Koto and probably a good one from Mino. Not many ubu Mino swords from this era on sale... Quote
Brian Posted February 12, 2013 Report Posted February 12, 2013 Can't get away with anything here can you... Brian...you should see how hard some forums are on simple things like grammar! We still have it relatively good here Brian Quote
Jean Posted February 12, 2013 Report Posted February 12, 2013 I must confess that, as a stranger, I am often tempted... Quote
drbvac Posted February 12, 2013 Report Posted February 12, 2013 No problem - I recall Rheinhard - this is still the best forum on the net due to the work of folks like Jean and Brian . Tough for some of us involved in several other hobbies and jobs and no one other than my friends here to even say or write any of the terms!! Thats how we learn -may not remember however and thats another problem entirely. Quote
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