Signature Removal Opinions wanted

[Alex A]

Cheers Chris for such a lengthy reply,very informative, much appreciated indeed!

 

Alex.

[cabowen]

A reminder to all...under your profile you have a "friends and foes" section. Adding names to your foes list will ignore their posts, maybe bringing a little peace to the rest of us. Everyone is welcome to use it..in fact encouraged.

 

Brian

 

Thank you Brian.

 

And Alex, you are most welcome.

[Alex A]

Alex.

[Stegel]

Is it possible to submit a blade to shinsa and not have the mei considered? that is, covered up so as not to be visible and influence the appraisal?

 

From what i've read so far, (and i have no experience of submitting blades) it appears that the shinsa team are to some degree money grabbers.... as Dire Straights put it... Money for nothing! as on their monopolised pedestal, they just say:

Sorry it's a gimei..... bad luck, thanks for coming and by the way, thanks for coming, see you next time!

No other info is offered as to 'who' they think made the blade??? Hmmm, perhaps they don't want to be embarrased ? but then again they are the experts and authorities in their field right??? so who would doubt or question them?

This would tend me to agree with all the people who are of the opinion that papering is a waste of time and money.

 

just a thought on their origins:

Was the Shinsa team/organisation originally set up to try and recover 'valued' swords of national importance and they just progressed to todays organisation for milking collectors and making an economy by pushing up prices of blades with their paperwork??

 

Alex, i feel both Chris and Keith both gave honest opinions and views on the matter, reading this thread i didn't think it came across as demeaning, eliteist or arrogant, although i think the friend/foe option as suggested is a farce and should be removed...not promoted!

After all we, all of us, always learn something, even if we disagree, so being an 'Adult' site((excuse the insinuation, but it's true), i think we should be civil enough to conduct ourselves appropriately.

If i marked eveyone who made a shitty comment (in my opinion at the time), as a foe, well, what would be the use of visiting this site? what would i learn in the long run??

 

Ernst

BTW- i had a few beers prior to making this post....no offence was intended to anyone...Lol

[sanjuro]

Just to follow on from this, I have on two occasions submitted blades to the NBTHK. They came back thankfully with hozon and tokubetsu hozon papers respectively which is pretty much what I expected in each case, so I have no axe to grind as far as the shinsa result is concerned. I must say however that in both cases it was a strictly mercenary experience in as much as the NBTHK seemed to be merely going through the motions in order to get the fee. It was a pretty cold calculated sort of transaction. I put this down to what the Japanese think is the correct way to do business........ Business being the operative word and sole purpose. Consequently I do not look forward with any warmth to the next submission I make, knowing there will be little in the way of communication and virtually nothing in the way of what we in the west would consider service.

 

I stress this is only my own experience and my impressions of the process.

 

Alex.

I'm sorry but I havent the faintest idea of what you are rabbiting on about.

[kusunokimasahige]

I am wondering about this since I remember having seen papers posted several times on the internet and even on ebay which did say Gimei but still had an attribution made by the shinsa team.

 

KM

[John A Stuart]

There is no point in decrying the fees for shinsa. The NBTHK is a non-profit organisation that has a specific goal to achieve. To do this it has to generate funds from government grants, museum passes, sword and fittings assessments etc. The museum costs money to upkeep and overhead, experts need remuneration for giving their time, journals to print, etc. So, instead of only thinking about the costs one incurs having something papered, think about where the money is going. Imagine the anarchy there would be if there was no governing bodies to moderate what could be a free for all. In the end it is your personal choice to use shinsa, no one is twisting your arm. I do believe however there should be more info forthcoming whether pinked or not. John

[Alex A]

Ernst, i thought chris and keiths replys where A1 ammended.

 

Alex

[John A Stuart]

Hi Alex, I might be wrong, as is known to happen, but, the friends and foes thing was not specific to you and I suspect the comments. There have been some modified posts and may have created a 'non sequitur'. John

[Brian]

Indeed.

People forget there are lots of posts that are removed before most see them and a lot of moderating to do behind the scenes. People who jump to conclusions seldom stick around long.

The "foes" thing is a useful tool for some...they know who they are and the post was by request of one of the participants in the thread. I will not tolerate baiting, no matter who it is directed at or why.

Alex, you seem to have made some wild speculative assumptions, the least of which being that any of that was directed at you.

Both Keith and Chris were baiting a member and I advised that they rather use the ignore function (foes) than reply to trolls or people out just for a reaction.

 

Brian

[sanjuro]

Alex.

 

Please check your PM's. There is a red light telling you that you have one at the top of the page. You will find a full explanation in there. Its not and never was about you old chap. :D

[Alex A]

Guys, i am unfamiliar with all these background things going on. If you read all these posts and see it from my point you should clearly understand why i came to this assumption. I apologise, simply got the wrong end of the stick! Please except my apology, i have ammended the posts....

 

ps, if the nthk or nbthk where not money making organisations, they would tell you who they thought made your blade, rarther than dismiss it.

[cabowen]

First, let's be clear that not all appraisal organizations handle things in the same manner, nor are they all non-profit. Thus, it is incorrect to lump them all together when making comments and judgments about them.

 

The NBTHK is not a non-profit organization (NPO) as organized under Japanese law. My understanding of their current situation is that they are a special type of foundation and are more of a quasi-governmental body. They are subsidized by the government. There is no submitting swords for evaluation apart from the mei. They give no feedback. They shinsa hundreds to thousands of items every other month. They apparently have neither the time nor resources to provide anything other than kantei-sho and rejection slips.

 

The NTHK-NPO is a bona fide non-profit organization organized and recognized under Japanese law. I am a director of this organization and know when they do overseas shinsa they provide a worksheet with additional info, as best they can, when a sword fails. This is perhaps what KM refers to in his post.

 

The NTHK-Yoshikawa is a for-profit family business. I have no idea what they do.