Shuishinshi Masahide 1818 ?

[stu c]

Hi, I have this sword by Shuishinshi Masahide dated 1818,I dont know if it is a first or second generation or a gimei.There are no shinza in Australia for an indefinite time in the future,so how do I find out? I would appreciate some advice & direction. Thanks ,Stu

[nagamaki - Franco]

sorry, no direction or advice, a valid example though for consideration.

 

http://www.sanmei.com/contents/media/O45776_S8893_PUP_E.htm

 

and another example http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/11556565_japanese-wakizashi-suishishi-masahidenaohide

[Marius]

It is difficult to compare the mei on your pics, but I mus remark that the horimono seems very high quality. Hopefully this indicates that the sword might be genuine. No guarantee, though...

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Stu,

Can I suggest a better photo of the mei? Try a raking light to see if the Kanji become more visible and please orient the blade upright so we don't bust our necks viewing it.

Grey

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

Oshigata of swords made the same year.

 

 

[Bazza]

When was the last time anyone saw rust on the nakago all the way to the machi??? Looks suspect to me. I haven't checked "the books", but from memory the nakago jiri doesn't look "right".

 

Regards,

BazZa.

[cabowen]

Looks gimei to me.....

[runagmc]

From what I have read, wouldn't Yoshitane likely have been the one to do a horimono like this dragon on MASAHIDE's sword at this time period?... and this definitely doesn't look like Yoshitane's work.

That's just the tip of the ice berg, as they say - I see several other things that don't seem right when compared to the excellent examples Jacques posted...

[Eric H]

but I mus remark that the horimono seems very high quality

 

Ouch!....

 

Yoshitane Horimono on a Masahide Wakizashi

 

Eric

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

Yoshitane Horimono on a Masahide Wakizashi

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/sword20.html

[Eric H]

Even untrained eyes recognize the perfectness of this Horimono by Yoshitane, the comparison with the one of the alleged Masahide is impressive and shows clearly the difference between a masterwork and mediocre quality.

In another thread was revealed that atobori on blades by Nobuhide, the other great horimono-shi, are not uncommon and sometimes of astonishing quality.

When Masahide carved Horimono by himself he added „hori dosaku“.

 

Eric

[Brian]

I was going to say that the horimono reminds me exactly of the ones that I suspect are being turned out like a carbon copy..mostly on blades supposed to be big name Shinshinto smiths. They are usually fair to good horimono...not great at all. And they all seem so very similar, that I still have a theory that someone out there is making a living adding this horimono to good Gendaito or mumei swords, and then having the mei added. Just a theory...but I have one myself that I suspect might fit the bill. No proof besides the fact that I have seen this horimono too many times..all looking the same. Bet members have seen it too many times. More times than would be mere co-incidence or the fact that it is just a popular theme.

If true, and I ever find out who is doing this...I will encourage fraud charges to me laid.

Anyways...hope yours is shoshin, but there are just soooo many Masahide gimei out there that without papers you have to assume otherwise.

 

Brian

[Marius]

Oops! That shows that one should not comment on stuff that one has no knowledge about. Better to shut up than talk nonsense

 

I give myself a ban as a punishment.

 

[Brian]

I hereby unban you :D

That's a characteristic of this horimono. Looks very good on casual inspection or from pics...but close up, you can see the short cuts and places where it just isn't perfect.

Mind you..I am not saying it is a terrible horimono at all. They are light years ahead of those used to cover up flaws, and are still very well done. Think it takes a craftsman to do them. Just that they lack that perfection or wow factor. But certainly not bad at all...I enjoy mine. Not even 100% sure it is the same as we see here, but appears to be.

 

Brian

[cabowen]

have a theory that someone out there is making a living adding this horimono to good Gendaito or mumei swords, and then having the mei added. Just a theory..

 

Brian

 

this is exactly what is said to have happened during the late 1800's into the 1930's when smiths had little work...Lots of fake Shinshinto....

[stu c]

I think it has been a good discussion so far,the point about the rust up to the mune is something I have never thought of .I have redone the pics of the mei ,hopefully a little clearer.But it looks like shinza the only way .I don't know if I can send it anywhere for that purpose. The sword came from a vet & it has been stored in the hot water cupboard.there is a few cancer spots & a chip on the ha.So I will have to see what unfolds .Thanks for everyone's interest.

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

Even untrained eyes recognize the perfectness of this Horimono by Yoshitane,

 

The smith discussed here is Masahide shodai (whom made horimono himself too) and if the blade is gimei or not (it is).

 

So as usual you are off topic and, when you copy and paste something from the web, please provide the source (just in matter of politeness).

[Brian]

Watch your tone.

Completely relevant. The idea is to show what a good horimono looks like, and learn to tell the difference. We don't need more moderators at the moment, thanks.

 

Brian