How many swords did a smith make during his career?

[Drago]

Hi,

 

of course I know that depens on a whole lot of conditions (the time (violent vs peaceful), length of career/life, number of desciples, area of residence etc).

 

But have there ever been studies into the "average" number of swords made?

 

If you know anything, feel free to share...

 

Thanks.

[Jean]

Tobias, you have forgotten to mention also the kind of blade: tanto, wakizashi, katana, naginata, yari, kogatana?

[cabowen]

I do not believe there are accurate records for many smiths historically. We have fairly good records from the war era but those are distorted due to the use of mechanization. I think I read somewhere that they estimate that Tsuda Sukehiro, who was very popular in his day, made upwards of 1600 swords. That is roughly the same as many WWII era smiths working with power hammers or who were working full out with unfettered access to materials made in a 10 year period.

[mdiddy]

According to Fujishiro, Tsuda Sukehiro received the title Echizen no Kami in 1657, aged 20. He died in 1682, aged 46. Assuming he was working for himself a little before he received his title, making upwards of 1600 swords over a ~26 year career means he turned out about 5 per month.

 

For comparison, Kotani Yasunori, who supposedly was the most productive of the Yasukuni Tosho, turned out 1600 swords in 10 years working for the NTK. That is about 13 per month over that time.

 

Wish there was more data on this subject...

 

Does anyone know if there are estimates on how long it took Heian and Kamakura era swordsmiths to produce a blade? I would guess Ko-Bizen Masatsune was probably not turning them out at the same rate as Sukehiro or Yasunori.

[george trotter]

A very difficult question. Even in modern WWII times it is not yet clear as to totals produced.

Take gendai tosho making gunto...because of my interest I have tried to collate the numbers that appear on the nakago of these individual smiths' swords...not very helpful I'm afraid as it is not definite (to me) what the number is...smith's own number, RJT scheme number, counting number...or? Also, smiths made private orders, usually without any ID mark at all.

Here is an example for the Yamagami brothers Munetoshi and Akihisa who worked together in Niigata in WWII...their swords were marketed in Tokyo by the Nihon Tobu Tanrento Kogyo Kumiai under Kasama Shigetsugu...this table gives some idea of the difficulties faced by just noting the numbers without knowing the "meaning"

I am unsure whether they had sakite or steam hammers and am presuming that they overlapped each other using the numbers:

Tang numbers for both names to Sept 1941 = 308

By April 1942 they have started again at = 11 (Matsu in a circle stamp appears)

By Nov. 1942 they use the star stamp and tang No. has reached 422

By Oct. 1943 = 1377

By Mar.1944 a new? system is used which I see on other RJT nakago...this is the number with a kana prefix...in this case ta2353.

So potentially there are say 600 by Mar. 1942. In April 1942 they start again and made a further 1377 by Oct. 1943. By Mar. 1944 the number is at 2353.

It is not unreasonable to presume that they made another 1200 between Nov. 1944 - Aug. 1945, so this is a potential of a total of about 3400 swords or 1700 each 1941-1945 by two gendaito smiths.

I have no idea how accurate this is, but it seems high to me (where did they all go?), but since Edo smiths are credited with 1600 blades in a lifetime using hand techniques I suppose it is possible with steam hammers in 5 years?.

Hope this helps?

Regards,

[kunitaro]

This is very nice thread.

 

when i think about single smith, to make one sword will take minimum 3 days, if you have good assistants(2-3).

one day or one and half day forging (making forged block) and second day, Tsukurimoki (construction) and Hizukuri,

3rd day, Yakiire and shiage (smith polish).

 

in Koto time, they had to make their own Tamahagane (Tatara),

in shinto period, they could buy( or get ) Tamahagane. but, still needs to work a bit before start forging.

 

Also, we have to think about how they are working. there is big different, between Independent single smith and big factory( big or many workshop )

like Sukesada in muromachi period, or Hizen sword in shinto period.

(they had hundred of workers and many master students who had never signed himself)

 

so, we can think, there is Master pieces, workshop items and mass-productions.

[almeister]

This is a good question Tobias !

I often wonder about how many blades Miyamoto Kanenori could have made in his time . The katana of his I have is dated Taisho 10 (1921) , at the age of 92 . He was born in 1830 & passed in 1926 . I don't know when he began forging ? But I'm guessing his career to be in excess of 60 years ?

If someone has any feedback on this for me - It would be Greatly Appreciated !

Cheers , AlanK

[Jean]

I think that a reasonable assumption in the old times is of 6 daito per month for an average smith (not talking of mass product)

[cabowen]

One needs to keep in mind that while a smith could perhaps supply 6 swords or more a month, there needs to be a demand for them first. During peaceful periods, there wasn't a large demand and it is doubtful that most smiths were busy every day making swords. Minamoto Kanenori worked primarily during the period when there was almost no demand for swords. As a result, despite his lengthy working period, he made relatively few swords.

[Hans Kondor]

Are there any estimation about how many nihonto exist?

[Jean]

Are there any estimation about how many nihonto exist?

 

Suriage or nor, Hans?

 

Be serious, no one has any idea of how many nihonto are kept in private collection, attics, museum reserves. Any estimation would be sheer speculation...

[ROKUJURO]

I have a related question: is it true that swordsmiths as a rule were not to work more than four hours per day? Considering their very concentrated work I could well understand such a limitation.

 

Being in that business myself, I can hardly imagine that a smith could make a long blade in less than a week, even with assistants.

[cabowen]

Never heard that one before....