Bruno

But your Japanese is much better than my english! :lol:

I found an interesting text in the book The new genration of Japanese swordsmiths by Tamio Tsuchiko. The smith Matsuda Tsuguyasu says : " It is my contention that only 20% of the total shinsakuto really consist of art swords; the rest were made as iai-to. It is very difficult to differentiate between art sword and iai-to production, since I have had no opportunity to verify my hypothesis and no reliable information is available.[...]But many people in the sword society misunderstand, beleiving most shinsakuto are unequivocally art swords, and they tend to underestimate or disparage iai-to."

OK sorry and thank you to the 3 of you guys. Yes my english is not so good, Chris's sentence was a bit hard for me! :lol:

Sorry Chris, not sure to understand this sentence, you mean such a book does not exist in english? What about the one Brian mentioned?

Hi everyone, May you gentlemen recommend me a particular book on shin shinto swordsmiths, in english? Not necessarily one in which shinshinto is just included as a section of a book on all swords. Thanks

Wow great Morita san, thanks! I know it is not the most interesting part of the Japanese swords history, but as very few things are well known, I would like to learn more (I hope I am not the only one here! :lol: ) Hopefully your new incoming book will provide nice fresh news clues! From my side, I asked Jinsoo Kim if he has a english version of the booklet/list of the seki tanrensho. Thanks again to you and Chris and Rich.

OK this is another problem! Thanks anyway, maybe one day...

May you please post these photos?

So no chance there are some covered archives somewhere with these infos? I remember a post with a civilian mount showato. The blade was broken and one could see clearly a shingane. Here is the link: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=12276&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=core+steel Despite these blades were not traditionnal, I am sure among the non traditionnal trained smiths, all of them have a large range of different skills. A bit like nowadays westerner smiths. My interest is more historical, and I am sure a lot of unexpected interesting infos are sleeping somewhere. Once again I make clearly the difference between showato and gendaito, but all these new methods of construction, new steel to attempt to improve quality, all these unknown smiths are not so well known.

In fact I am interested in all swords made in Showa/Taisho era, but would collect only gendaito. However, I think interesting to know everything with the more details, photos, infos possible on the whole aspect including the "bad smiths". Yes, I hope one day more will pop up.

OK I found the website! http://www.jp-sword.com/

Thank you Richard, I will contact him. Just I do not remember who he is.

Hi everyone, I was reading Dr Stein's wonderfull website and saw he mentioned the book Seki Tanrensho book printed in 1939. In this book it seems are mentioned the numerous Seki kaji tosho whose very but very few informations are avaible tilll now. As you guys know, I am very interested in the various method of construction of Japanese swords of this period (WW2). It seems a large different kind of different steel were used (Guensui, Yasuki steel, Mantetsu steel, tamahagane, stainless steel, western steel etc...), and also many different techniques (machine made, hand made, partially both, traditionnal etc...). We all know that many of these swords were not traditionnaly made, but there are so few infos on what were really the methods of construction used at that time. I also think one cannot put all these smiths whether they were traditionnaly or not trained in the same 'basket". I have never found any serious infos, texts or photos of their "factory", equipments used etc... In SLOUGH's book, some are present, but so few. Does anyone has a copy of this book? What are the infos inside it? Is there a english copy? Does anyone know if an author is planing to write a complete book with ALL the Seki kaji toshi including the more than 200 showato makers + gendaito makers, with all the oshigata, techniques? A bit like SLOUGH one but more complete and detailed. A book like that would be a dream for every WW2 Japanese swords collectors. Thanks

Very interesting Chris. Until yesterday I thought sunobeto were only showato. I have been PMed by a member and he sent me interesting additional infos about the topic, I hope he will dare to share directly here what he shared with me.

You are right Mike about the quote, do not know what happened. I agree with you about being carefull regarding correct terminology, it is just that I am terrible for that!

Very clear, the nuance is important. That is right, but can we tell the same for a longer sword? I do not know....my guess would be probably not until the mid Kamakura period, but that is just a guess.... I will look for this info. Thanks Chris, you are as very often of much help.

Do we know from what approximate date the core steel appeared? And when it was generalized in the making process of a nihonto? So a sword without core steel can be called a true nihonto? In other words, a sunobeto not necessarely made with tamahagane can be a true nihonto as long as it is forged by a licenced Japanese swordsmith, water quenched and traditionnaly made despite the unknown "short cuts"?

In that case, they are not so different from WW2 sunobeto/seki showato, if I understand. The main difference being one is made by well known smiths whereas the other by almost unknown seki smiths. One is considered true nihonto and the other not. Isn't it strange?

Thanks Chris and Eric. That was a very instructive topic to me, but I have a last question. At least can we assume they have always a core steel despite of the shortcuts?

When you say short cuts, you mean short cuts of tamahagane, or it could be another material? Certainly, but it is also a matter of semantics. When I say shinsakuto I mean real nihonto forged nowadays whereas it litteraly means a newly made sword. And by iaito I mean a practise sword blunt or not, not made with tamahagane. It is like when one says "showato" to talk about WW2 non traditionnaly made swords, but litteraly showato means sword of the Showa era.

I think Chris was thinking I was talking about NTHK/NBTHK paper but in fact I meant a kind of certficate that prove it is Mukansa.

Hi Eric, Glad you saw it too when Mankusa photos were available. I read Chris's indications to differenciate iaito and shinsakuto true nihonto, and must say that it is hard to tell if you do not have it in hand. Well at least to me (even in hand I am not sure to make the difference! :D ) So you beleive it was a real nihonto and not iaito? In that case yes it could be a bargain. I beleive on Ebay people have a price limit they would not have with others professionnal dealers. That is why this Mankusa wether iaito or real nihonto could not have been sold much more on Ebay.

Thanks Chris and Henk Jan, In fact what I wanted to be sure was if living licenced Japanese swordsmiths are making or not both kind of swords: what I call iaito (not made with tamahagane but maybe in the traditionnal way) that could very much ressemble a true nihonto, AND of course what I maybe wrongly call shinsakuto ie true nihonto. Now I have my answer. They make the 2 types. As Chris said, there are clues to tell wether it is iaito or nihonto, but it seems dangerous to judge on photos. I I am surprised that these iaito are at this price range, whereas a nihonto shinsakuto which starting price range seems to be around 10K in first hand, can descreases in second hand. One can expect it can easily reach the price of a new iaito ($4000-$7000), right? Of course this does not concern I guess shinsakuto nihonto by higher smiths which original price is in the 15K/20K. Not that I am looking to buy one of those on Ebay, my goal is more to know what is what and at what price.

Dear Henk Jan, Thanks for your detailed answer. Maybe is not that simple... About the iaito...no, not alloy blade...proper handmade blade, but maybe not tamahagane...these blades can be used for iaito kata exercises, like cutting bundle of straw etc...about 4/5000 dollars. The alloy blade is just for decoration sword...not sharp, so no licence needed in Japan. Why they sometimes sell cheap, I don't know...that is why one needs to see them in the hand...this linked one below is made by Mukansa...but no papers. One would expect a blade made by a smith of mukansa level to have papers (because his work is special), so no papers means maybe iaito? http://www.ebay.com/itm/130666605200?ss#ht_715wt_724 So, 1° Is a iaito can be sold in that price range ie 4000/7000 USD, if sold as "iaito" and not as shinsakuto? 2° Is it true a shinsakuto which is not new can lost the half of its original price after some yeras? (I would be surprised of that). 3° Do licenced Japanese swordsmiths are making lower quality swords iaito, traditionnaly made but not with tamahagane? (for example the 2 swords linked above) Thanks for your help

Hi all, I rarely open topic but something is not clear to me. I have seen these swords and some others these past months on Ebay. I have always been told these modern swords shinsakuto cost around 15 000/20 000 USD. So why, these two ones are so cheap if there are shinsakuto? In fact, are they iaito made by licenced Japanese smiths? If yes, an iaito can cost such money? Finaly, is it usual that licenced Japanese swordsmiths make also iaito and not only shinsakuto? I asked seller if they were iaito or shinsakuto but he answered he had no clue to tell. What do you guys think? Are they copies, "expensive" iaito or cheap shinsakuto, bargain? I linked 2 but many appears on Ebay, dated in the 70s to 90s form what I remember. Very often sold by the same seller. http://www.ebay.com/itm/140729922934?ss ... 1423.l2649 http://www.ebay.com/itm/130666605200?ss ... _715wt_724 PS: From what year/date one can tell a sword is a gendaito and not a shinsakuto and vice versa? Thanks for your help.