Bruno

Is there a possibility to know who where the others 14 swords makers employed by Amahide? I mean are they listed in the Seki kaji tosho list or were they just unknown guys?

I would love to read it, I hope someone has it somewhere. Thanks

I would say the shinsa team could have judged the quality of the blade. I would not be surprised that among the numerous stamped blades some were much better made than the big bulk. Even if not traditionnaly made they could have nice global shape so got a paper from shinsa. This plus the historical side can produce more than a few times a shinsa certificate.

Yes the case by case seems to be the rule, here is what Tsuruta san added: "generally speaking seki stamp and seki stamp and also showa stamp are not allowed to hold these swords. But sometimes at the sword inspection, sword expert permit the blade as general sword. If some one who fought at the war front, some kind judge permit to hold this sword for his long severe fight. Recently these swords are reducing rapidly. So NTHK permit as genuine regular sword I think. We are not sure that these Katei organ accept as genuine Japanese sword or not. But recently the price of these swords are increasingly higher than before. Kind regards. Kazushige Tusruta" I wouldn't be surprised to see more papered in the future.

Hi John, I too am interested in Amahide. Who was Seki Sengo Masayoshi? A good smith? There are 3 Masayoshi in Slough's book but no Seki Sengo.

I am having hard time to upload it!

Oups! Here is the paper. What does it says?

...And here is the Aioi's answer, not exactly what I asked but it is an answer! :D Quote : Dear Mr. Bruno HERRMANN san. My customer submit the blade to NTHK shinsa recently and got the paper. I think the blade is called Hantanren sword. The blade was polished nicely.(polishing cost will be ¥80,000) The blade also accompanied with Gunto Koshirae. Even if the blade is a consignment sale, we will buy back 70% of the sales price at anytime. Recently army Gunto sword which is hantanren or mutanrento sword, price is higher than before. It means army gunto is treated as precious historical sword. I think NTHK issue the certificate as historical sword even if the blade is Hantanren sword. We attach the certificate. Recently a lot of Japanese swords are exported to foreign countries. I think this tendency will be increasing. Japanese swords are treated as investment. Unfortunately Japanese people are not interested in Japanese swords, many visitors visit Japanese sword museum and also ever growing sword expert like you. After 15 years later, good or bad Japanese swords will be exported to foreign countries like wood block printing or Netsuke while Japanese people are sleeping! Would you please understand this situation. kind regards. Kazushige Tsuruta

I have asked Aoi, what NTHK level got the showato.

And is it written what level get the showato when it passed the NTHK shinsa?

Forgive my ignorance, but what does this mean exactly? That a Seki stamped showato has been judged by NTHK at a level superior than Hozon? I found that by googleling: "Kantei-sho will be issued according to the following system: 60-69 points: Shintei-sho (equivalent to the NBTHK Hozon level) 70-79 points: Kantei-sho (equivalent to the NBTHK Tokubetsu Hozon) 80+ points: Kantei-sho (plus eligible for the yearly Yushu shinsa held only in Japan)" What is the real reason for such unexpected appraisal? Thanks

So do I!

Just by saying that, you can be sure they intentionaly lied to you in order to crook you. Only for that reason, I would not buy it. I bet this fake sword comes from one of numerous Ebay Chinese sellers. You can buy a real gunto on Ebay for 500 USD easily. There are plenty!

Water quenched hamon, that is interesting...It would be nice to see some good shots of these blades. Not so easy I guess. I haven't seen any till today. :?

Thanks Lance, that is very interesting. Fuller & Gregory is a reliable source so one can assume real hamon could be produced on some Kanenaga anti-rust steel swords. Does one if these particular swords were most likely water or oil quenched, and if they had a core steel like Mantetsuto or were sunobeto?

Hi Lance, Interesting. However I have a question regarding the two Kanenaga swords that you said to be anti rust steel with real hamon. Did the inscriptions "made with anti rust steel" (sometimes present on these kind of nakago) are present on both nakago or did you assume they were made of anti rust steel because of the particular colour of the steel?

SUKECHIKA?

What I meant us as far as I understand, there is : stainless steel : with enough chrome not to allow a visible oil quenched hamon and anti rust steel : with chrome but less than with stainless steel that allow a visible oil quenched hamon Both steels are very similar for the eyes so hard to tell which on is it.

KM Actually the boshi gives it away - look for the difference in the colour of steel. Interesting that there's no patination on the nakago, though theresome dark patches. There's what looks like the result of a very small bit of corrosion on one patch of the blade (plus a fingerprint). Don't think it is stainless maybe anti rust steel with less chrome that allows formation of hamon? Well I do not know a lot that is why I asked here.

This one is said to be oil quenched, just for example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/140739899714?ss ... 1423.l2649

Thanks Keith for your words. I am not a metalurgist neitheir! In fact, according to the same person, it seems anti-rust steel and stainless steel are two different steels, which I did not know ten minutes ago. I thought they were the same thing. The hamon seems to have be issued on anti-rust steel not stainless steel.

Finally, does one know if all these swords are sunobeto or if they have shingane?

To those who own such a sword, you are welcome to post photos and share also your opinions.

Hi everyone, I have been told that one smith Fujiwara Kanenaga succeed to produce a "real hamon" on stainless steel kaigunto. By real hamon I mean oil quenched not due to polishing effect. I also have been told the contrary, that on stainless steel it is impossible to have any real hamon due to the presence of chrome. Fujiwara Kanenaga was a metalurgist so he had probably a good knowledge with steels. I have seen a couple of his swords and must say that all of them looked to have hamon made with stones. So my question are: Do all these Kanenaga's anti-rust steel swords have fake hamon? Do some have fake hamon and others real? Maybe in some cases the composition of the steel was change to allow a real hamon (oil quenched)? I do not know. I would be happy to read what you guys know about the subject. http://www.h4.dion.ne.jp/~t-ohmura/gunto_121.htm Thanks