Jake6500

Tsuba one seems to be kind of similar to this tsuba I found through a quick online search... https://www.eldreds....ing-a-mou_B3C4B97863 Possibly the same Kaneiye? Fushimi school? As for the motif of the second one I believe it likely depicts a teacher and student. Looks like a young boy of samurai status receiving a formal education. I am a big fan of the second one! Edit: To expand on my post, the character on the right is holding a fan which was typically used as a teaching prop. The position of the other hand looks like he is giving a lecture and the head wear is indicative that the man is a priest (as might be the gate in the background). Literacy and numeracy were typically taught in the temple during the pre-Edo and early Edo periods before the introduction of formalised school systems. Important samurai families might also have educators make home visits to tutor their sons.

So I have been doing some research into different schools and I came upon an interesting tsuba from the kikuchi school. I was wondering if anyone had any additional information about the Kikuchi school artisans/lineage as I am curious about the particular artisan who created this piece. I am particularly interested in knowing if this is an example of musume-bori from a female artisan. Any help would be appreciated. https://www.aoijapan...sui/#google_vignette

Hands and fingers in general are pretty difficult to draw or carve, so I don't think it's wise to dismiss every tsuba with a weird hand or finger as a modern fake. Tsuba like any other form of art have different levels of quality and were made by artisans of varying levels of skill or expertise. Not every tsuba will be a generational masterpiece. Some are just modest pieces with a nice cultural design, slightly stiff line work and a weird hand. At least, this is what I think, but I will defer to Dale's wealth of knowledge and experience.

Second time *That I know of* Consider this a fun game to gauge both the value and the market!

Nuh-uh, that's too easy! Everybody's gotta state a specific value to take part in the game, no easy way-outs! Based on how the last auction went my bet is 180,000 yen and the seller pulls it again at the last minute!

As the title suggests, this is a sequel to my post a week or so ago about the cool looking gold Meiji Tsuba... https://www.jauce.com/auction/p1149591169 The question is will the seller follow through this time and what price will they fetch this round? Last time we reached 132,000 yen, gentlemen place your bets! Edit: Previous thread for context - https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/49607-cool-looking-gold-tsuba/#comment-516533

I believe this is what Peter is referring to, the unnaturally shaped hand and curved fingers on the back and the curved forefinger on the front.

The hand is one thing about the design I did find a bit odd. It is probably the one part of the design I don't like. That and the linework feels a little stiff or unnatural. That said it struck me as a late design rather than a modern fake. I also trust Dale's judgment. If it was obtained for a reasonable price (along with the rest of the sword) I think it's a decent piece. Not something I would pay top dollar for but something I might buy.

This is a nice tsuba, the type of thing I would add to my own collection. I have a couple of tsuba with similar aesthetic depicting Daikoku and Ebisu which I have yet to post on the forum. Probably different schools/origins but slightly similar style.

Hey Ron, I'm nowhere near knowledgeable enough to narrow down the school or specific artisan but i would guess that they may have produced this tsuba in the Satsuma region, or as a commissioned work for a Satsuma samurai based on the apparent Shimazu crest on each of the "petals" of the tsuba. Maybe researching artisan schools from Satsuma (Southern Kyushu) might give you some leads.

It is a bit of a mysterious one and I'm not so sure it really is a "clock gear" design. That said, pocket watches or the like were items of Western ephemera. I could see why Japanese people in the Edo Period with a fascination for Western culture might want such a design. Essentially, it is for the same reason that we obsess over Tosogu in this forum!

Glad I'm not the only one who sees no connection between the "clock gear" tsuba and Christian iconography.

WOWWW! How did these Edo Period ukiyo-e artists achieve that incredible silhouette effect?

I'm actually not sure where the cross is meant to be here but this actually looks like a karmic wheel tsuba. There is an ongoing thread about Ohno tsuba near the top of the Tosogu forums right now that resemble this design. This tsuba if anything appears to have Buddhist iconography as was common in pre and early Edo tsuba, not Christian.

It sounds like Tim is saying the weight and thickness of the tsuba changed as uchigatana evolved around this timeframe from being a single-handed to a two-handed weapon. On a two-handed weapon you would presumably want a lower center of mass and a greater amount of weight as this would improve the weapons ability to cut. A thicker, heavier tsuba helps achieve this on later two-handed weapons. I had never thought about that possibility but it makes logical sense.

As usual Dale has pretty much said it all! A nice motif reflective of life in the Japanese rural countryside where this crop was commonly grown.

So I have seen exactly this design floating around... My inclination is that this is NOT a Christian tsuba and that the symbol is the Shimazu clan mon. I would say the distinct difference is in the placement of the horizontal axis. The Shimazu crest is characterised by the horizontal axis being perfectly centered (as we see in these examples) whereas discreet Christian tsuba or the Christian cross is generally characterised by having a higher placed horizontal axis instead of a symmetrical or centered one. The Shimazu clan was one of the most significant and powerful clans of the period so tsuba with symmetrical, perfectly centered horizontal axes should be considered Shimazu mon tsuba by default. One thing I will suggest is that Christian samurai, seeking to be more discreet may have used the Shimazu mon as an alternative, however this is still undoubtedly the Shimazu mon and not the Christian cross!

Didn't realize you were talking about these specific examples. I was just talking more generally.

I think it would depend in part upon where and when the tsuba was crafted. Christianity was definitely *present* in medieval Japan at different intervals and in different provinces, particularly in Northern Kyushu or in the Sendai region under the Otomo and Date clans respectively.

There are actually numerous tsuba with Christian iconography and the cross does appear somewhat frequently in tsuba, though usually more covertly.

Not a fan of the comparison to European knights as these sorts of East-West comparisons have resulted in severe misinterpretations about East Asian cultures already, the notion of "bushido" as "samurai ethic" (Nitobe basically concocted this notion of a unifying samurai ethic at the start of the Meiji Period) being a prime example. That aside, it appears that certain religious themes were certainly present on occasion in Tosogu. Themes and designs such as the buddhist karmic wheel or of the Dharma have made their way into tsuba and I have seen numerous examples of this already despite my relative inexperience as a collector.

I have no specific samples of my own to contribute but I think it would be a great idea.

As I just purchased it I have no way of knowing. Clearly it's not quite in pristine condition but if that mei is authentic I think I still got a pretty great bargain. Seems like it might be one of the artists earlier works pre 1770 based on the use of the family name Minamoto? I am pretty hyped about this one! Edit: Upon rethinking this, the inclusion of the title "Echizen Daijo" would indicate a post-1770 work, so 1770-1786.

I *believe* so. Same with the other tsuba example above. That and the matching theme to my last acquisition a couple days ago prompted me to pull the trigger on this auction even though it put my wallet on life support LOL

Possible Tsuba by the same artist? https://art.thewalte...warrior-in-the-rain/