Natichu

While I only know a little about smiths, and even less about painters, I very much enjoy the Muramasa-as-Caravaggio casting.

I certainly understood you to mean that for the purposes of this exercise (and in particular that sword) to ignore hataraki, not that they are to be ignored generally. To me, this looks a clean choji-midare into a standard komaru boshi. My recollection of Facts and Fundamentals is that transition strongly points to shinto era, but that's about as far as I can go.

That is much closer than I thought I might be! Clear proof that even a stopped clock is close enough to right every so often I suppose. Gunome certainly makes more sense than choji. Many thanks, and I look forward to the next portions of the thread.

Notare of some variety, with occasional choji interspersed? Not entirely sure what the question is, but have a feeling that answer is incorrect.

I'm still not sure I follow, but very much appreciate the answer! Interesting to so ko-midare thrown in there as well.

This was discussed a bit here: https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/49930-a-nihonto-display-case-at-home/#comment-520223 I think as a beginner like myself it's easy to lose sight of the fact that there is a lot of diversity of views in the hobby. While in have no doubt @ROKUJURO@ROKUJURO is entirely correct as to the orthodox take on things, katana and tachi kake clearly exist for a reason, and there are Japanese companies doing beautiful work on displays, such as: https://en.katana-case-shi.com/ Food for thought at least. Even if you're straying outside the orthodox position, it doesn't mean it's not in keeping with at least some Japanese collectors.

At any rate, I'm with the group and happy to drop the point to see where the thread goes, and appreciate the effort to educate by Jacques and his perspective.

Precisely that. Which, as the intro clause to that paragraph makes clear ("Gunome-midare:...") as well as the outro ("...this kind of gunome-midare work.") is a form of gunome-midare. So the regularity doesn't move it out of the midareba category it would seem, at least by Nakahara's version of things. At least that is my reading of it, so it isn't worth much. But given the Socratic nature of these proceedings, that's what we seem to be stuck with at the moment.

With respect, no one is arguing gunome-midare doesn't exist. How does this prove your point or show a contradiction? Naming the specific (ie the subtype) doesn't mean the general (ie overarching type) doesn't exist as a category. Again, this isn't to say I think (or even have the knowledge base) to say you're wrong, just that I don't think the pieces you've put forward logically support your position. At any rate, I look forward to the reading of the hamon in Monday.

Just on that point: "刃紋：刃紋は小乱れ、小丁子乱れとなり染み心となる。" The official Japanese description on Aoi for this sword: https://www.aoijapan.com/katana：mumei-unsigned-attributed-to-ko-aoe-nbthk-tokubetsu-hozon-tokenconsignment-sale/ At any rate, I'm content either way, but was just interesting to see come up (albeit ko-midare).

As you note Jussi, it's a bit of a taxonomical difference likely without great substance except to those at the highest of levels. For example, in my case, does it matter whether what I can't identify is a hamon type or a hamon subtype? Either way, the nature of the classification is not exactly nearly as important as the fact I can't identify it properly either way LOL.

I think we're straying well beyond my knowledge and abilities here but I'd say:

Just to close the loop on my previous thought, I can see both the Connoisseur's Guide (page 92) and Facts and Fundamentals (page 44) being somewhat ambiguous, but likely leaning towards Jacques' point overall.

Given my failing grade thus far, I have to assume I'll be wrong, but:

An interesting point. Though I would say that just because the specific style of midareba is by convention given, it does not mean the overarching family doesn't exist as such - particularly when the overarching family is referenced. Regardless, thank you for continuing the thread, and I look forward to the next set of questions!

Interesting. I'll have to check my Connoisseurs Guide when I get home, but my recollection is that he states something similar to Markus Sesko in the text. In his Kantei Guide, Mr. Sesko writes: "First of all, we distinguish between if the hardening is straight or undulating and refer thus to the two main types of a suguha (直刃) and a midareba (乱刃) respectively. According to the actual outline of the hamon, the latter type, i.e. the midareba, is further subdivided into a notareba (湾れ刃・のたれ刃, large waves), gunomeba (互の目刃, larger roundish elements), chôjiba (丁子刃, smaller clove/tassel-shaped elements), or tôranba (濤瀾刃, surging waves). Apart from that, there is the so-called hitatsura (皆焼) where large areas of the blade are hardened. A hitatsura can be based on a notareba, gunomeba, or even a chôjiba, so this term does not refer to a specific hamon outline. "

Best guess (read: you get what you pay for):

While I haven't had time to throw in an answer on the latest (I would have been correct on tani, incorrect on the other two), I for one would enjoy you continuing the line of thought.

I'm not entirely clear on terminology, but as most seem to have interpreted it as physical orientation based on light source, 4.

Thank you very much Jussi! Unfortunately I don't have many books to dip into, so went with internet digging instead. As I found the sword itself, I won't post my guess as that's entirely based on internet luck and not on any kantei knowledge-based skill. But very much enjoyed digging into things over a morning coffee, so thank you! Great way to start the new year.

It would certainly help us beginners to be able to follow the intellectual footprints of those who got it correct!

The NTHK worksheet lists it as 4 bu (a hair over 1.2cm).

Any chance we could get measurements for the motohaba, sakihaba, and kasane?

I'd never turn down free, and it does look like a lovely blade. So let me know if you're giving it away to clear out space Otherwise unfortunately I'm holding funds for an option along another line, but have to say if I wasn't trying to be quite so particular I would have messaged already!