rematron

@Ken-Hawaii he wrote "taido" - Taidō - Wikipedia

@rkg, thanks for that information! Most of it is Greek to me but I'll get there. LOL. The youtube video I'm sure will be helpful and I plan on trying to find some more of them dealing with macro photography. What I've really learned so far is that lighting is extremely important. I'm a little blown away by the options of microscopes out there. If I were rich I'd go for the 4-in-1 Keyence VHX-7000N Stereoscopic-Metalurgical-Electron-Measuring Microscope ($23,000 USD for a used older model) because that would be awesome! Alas, I'm far from rich. I'm liking the $200-$400 range, digital microscopes on Amazon with the screen you can look at. They look fun and easy to use but probably aren't powerful enough or have enough options for more than looking at coins and bugs close-up. I do have a very nice DSLR, just need to learn how to use it. And use it in combination with a microscope. So that's another option. @Dan tsuba, thanks for your examples! I'm starting to get an idea of what I'm getting myself into. I just learned last night that the macro ability on my iPhone is pretty decent. Investigation and learning aside, I'm looking froward to looking at the detail of the wonderful miniscule work that is tosogu.

Welcome to NMB, Jimmie.

Hi Dan, Thanks for the link. I'm going to be doing a bit of homework on what instruments and software to buy. The name of the microscope and your photo adaptor link are appreciated jumping off points. Yes, I am done joining in on the speculatory conversations. It's time for science. Otherwise, the conversation is circular which is boring to me. It's all been said and will be said again. This is an apropos titled thread for a new endeavor of physical discovery and applied science as opposed to the rehashing of old text and online sources. I don't like asking purchasing advice openly on the forum for a number of reasons but I do know a couple people who have been kind enough to give me their opinions privately. Best regards, Jeremy

I'm inspired to purchase a Zeis Standard 14. I've always wanted to get into macro photography. I'm also interested in finding out how much it costs to have an item non-invasively tested, metallurgically speaking. Do cast iron tsuba sound different from forged tsuba when they are strung up by string and whacked with a wooden mallet? I'm becoming very interested in learning the truth about cast iron tsuba. Especially when my eyes and gut say that something is too carbon-copied looking to be copied by hand. Because I'm not interested in acquiring anything that remotely approaches the look of a cast iron tsuba as a collector, I will just avoid tsuba like that, I guess, mainly just because they "don't look right" to me. I like what I like, right? And as I pointed out in the wasp tsuba thread, I wholly volunteer that my guts and eyes could be completely wrong and according to some authorities, that is the case. My Western eyes see an exact copy with superficial differences, and they tell my brain: "that is a cast copy" and the idea that it is a copy made by hand just doesn't seem to register even though there are authorities in the NMB that say it is a completely normal thing for artisans of the period to do. And I propose that could absolutely be the case and I am just not exposed or learned enough to grasp that truth, unfortunately for me. My other novice observation is I have noticed in my extremely short time of scrutinization that tsuba which have this carbon-copy look to them also share a characteristic finish. The mystery is intriguing to me and I would love to learn for myself that my novice observations are fact less. Because the burden of truth lies with anyone who is questioning the accepted thought on the subject of early cast iron tsuba, it would be amazing to find actual evidence to support the theory of Edo cast iron tsuba. I'm agnostic on the whole argument and will happily accept the truth, whatever it is, but it intrigues me that there are respected authorities on both sides of the debate. Afterthought: I suppose I will need to acquire at least a couple of the tsuba I find questionable in order to do my own research.

Elastic hair ties come to mind. Think of all the color options! Rubber bands would be perfectly safe if there was paper between the rubber and the wood.

Thank you all for the responses to my own questions. I deeply appreciate it. I've gone back and begun to read all the threads on "cast iron tsuba" and I can see those comments being repeated here, so I sincerely apologize for adding to the cacophony. For the question of Edo period cast iron tsuba I can see now that what is needed is a cast iron tsuba verified to have been made in the Edo period. Or an Edo period facility or workshop to be excavated that shows some sort of physical proof of the process. Without that, it's all speculation. While I find the intensity of Japanese artisans' ability and desire to make near perfect replicas of something they themselves or someone else has already made incredible, I do realize that this is my Western view of things polluting my objectivity. I also realize that the process of getting to the point where you're pouring liquid iron is an intense endeavor in of itself and perhaps hand carving a perfect replica is easier than that whole ordeal. My interest in the subject is mainly due to my desire to be able to distinguish fake tusba from real ones when shopping/collecting without depending on the expertise of others. I know I still have a lot to learn. Apparently overall "graininess" is not a good indicator (sorry @Matsunoki ). I appreciate this forum and the patience of its members. Thanks all, Jeremy

I've seen photos of shattered tsuba. Those would be cast iron, correct?

@Ford Hallam, thank you for the explanation of the motif. I love information like that. It brings a whole other life to the piece. I'm still curious, though, as to how virtually identical tsuba were made by hand and yet they are not considered master pieces of the craft considering the talent it would take to do that. It's as if the whole thing were traced but it's iron. Did they use carbon paper rubbing and constant comparisons to a master piece? And the artist just copied that master to the most minute detail? And why? Colin made a great point about the lack of need for mass replicated "real thing" tsuba. Did the artist just do it for the challenge? I'm sure you would charge a lot to be commissioned for an exact replica of a tsuba in hand. Please forgive my ignorance. Just trying to understand. Best regards, Jeremy

@Matsunoki Thanks Colin. That is very sound logic.

I just noticed that, while these objects occupy identical spaces and have identical curves, one is convex while the other is concave.

It's not just the mei. It's the positioning of every item on the whole piece. Every contour of the berries. Every vein on the leaves.

Hi Colin. As I am still learning, I don't know if your statement is fact or an assumption but I feel like it's perfectly reasonable to believe that a large amount of souvenir pieces were being made post-Edo to replicate old iron battle tsuba as people might want something that looked more like the "real thing" rather than an over-the-top, delicate kinko item.

@Ford Hallam , I'm trying to learn and this debate is dizzying. Thank you for your expert opnion. I would please like this above to be addressed. These are exactly the same and the skill required to do that is INSANE. Right? If there were hand carved, basically exact replicas being produced, I feel like they would be very very expensive and sought after for the skill required to do that. I'm also missing where it was claimed that these particular tsuba were cast in the Edo period. Why not after, as souvenir pieces? I have no chips in the whole "Edo period tsuba casting" debate. I just want clear understanding of what is what and why. So, what is the explanation for identical tsuba being produced if not cast, regardless of time peiod?

Nice finds @Spartancrest!

Hi @RunaTuna, I like your enthusiasm. If you haven’t already checked out the FAQ section of the website, it’s definitely worthwhile and educational. This particular excerpt below discusses what you are thinking about and is recommended reading. Cheers. http://www.nihontomessageboard.com/faq.html From NMB FAQ: I'm new to Japanese swords and I want to get my 1st sword polished and/or have koshirae made for it. Slow down Grasshopper. Pretty much every new collector wants to do this. But it is not always a good idea. A polish isn't necessary to preserve your sword; as long as any active red rust is stabilized, your sword will be just fine in its old polish with proper maintenance. Sharpening = polishing and polishing removes steel from the blade and too many polishes remove enough steel that the blade's core steel starts to show through, a serious and ugly defect. Beginners often don't know how to properly care for a blade in polish. A new polish is easily scratched or even rust spotted and before you know it, the blade needs a polish again. Old scabbards can contain grit that can scratch a newly polished sword, or talking over a blade can lead to tiny droplets of moisture on the blade which turn into rust spots very fast. Beginners often make the mistake of having their sword polished by an improperly trained polisher, which can irreparably damage the sword. Also,remember that not all swords are worthy of a polish: retempered, tired (core steel showing), and badly defected swords will not be worth the cost of polish. Low to mediocre grade swords are often worth less than the cost of polish. There are many periods in Japanese history where swords were produced as fast as possible, with less care about aesthetics and more thought about producing functional weapons. It is a fact that age doesn't necessarily mean value. In these cases your money would be better spent on a more worthy sword (or books). Learning to distinguish between mass produced utilitarian blades and those worthy of polishing is a huge part of your studies, and this is where the advice of knowledgeable collectors is invaluable. Spending $2500 on a polish for a sword that will be worth $1500 afterwards only makes sense if the sword has sentimental value. Otherwise, the money is better spent on upgrading. Having koshirae (mounts) made for a sword is also a common desire of new collectors. While this will do no damage to the sword if done by a professional, it can put a serious dent in your wallet. When the time comes to sell (and it will, unless you plan to be buried with your sword) you will be lucky to recoup half of what you invest in koshirae. Other collectors want original "Samurai" koshirae, not something you put together. Rather than jumping in with polish and/or koshirae, you would be smart to take your time to study and learn. With experience you will be able to make informed decisions and spend your money more wisely. Also, your tastes will change. A few years from now you'll be glad you don't have way too much invested in something you want to sell. •Who should I have polish my sword and how much can I expect to spend? In the west, especially in the United States, there are many polishers to choose from. I can count on one hand the number of polishers outside of Japan who have proper training. A poorly done polish can do significant damage to a sword, both artistically and monetarily. Put another way, the most expensive polish is often the one that costs the least. We can not over stress this point: Don't give your sword to an amateur polisher. •How do you know if a polisher has proper training? Ask experienced collectors (here on NMB, for example) who they'd recommend. If the polisher lives outside of Japan and he advertises his services on ebay or someplace similar, you don't necessarily want him to touch your sword; the true polishers have more than enough work without advertising. •What will this cost? Prices vary with the condition of the sword to be polished but a good rue of thumb is $100-120 per inch of cutting edge. You will also need shira-saya (plain wooden mounts) and possibly a new habaki. You won't be putting a newly polished blade back in its old mounts because the polish can be scratched by any grit that found its way inside the saya over the centuries. Shira-saya can cost a few hundred dollars and habaki, if necessary, at least $200 more. This isn't inexpensive, which is why you need to make sure your sword is worth the expense. A properly trained polisher will be glad to look at your sword and give you good advice. •How do I know if my sword is worthy of a polish? If you have been advised by knowledgeable collectors or other experts that your sword might possibly be worth restoring, one way to find out for sure that doesn't cost an arm and a leg is to have a professional polisher open a "window" on your blade. This is a small area of the sword that is polished to see the actual workmanship, hada, hamon and hataraki and see if the blade exhibits quality workmanship. Most polishers will do a window or at least look at your blade and give you advice. The other way is to find a sword study group or sword show near you and get the advice of as many advanced collectors as possible. Online opinions are at the bottom of the reliability scale, as there is only a limited amount that can be determined from pictures, but if from advanced collectors, is better than no advice at all. The key is to ask, ask, ask...before doing. Then take some more time and think it over before you make up your mind.

Hi Dimitri. Welcome to NMB. The Shogun series was a trigger for me too. My parents let me stay up to watch it all week when I was 8 years old. That and early versions of Americanized Japanese animation like Battle of the Planets, Starblazers and Robotech set me up for a lifetime of appreciation for Japanese art. There’s always a specific attention to detail the Japanese strive for in all arts. Cheers.

Hi Colin, We’re relatively soggy today in my part of the states (Seattle area) but it’s typical for this time of year. I’m gonna test my tiny knowledge here and take a guess but we’ll see what some more trained eyes say. I’m guessing late Edo or Meiji because it seems to me to be cast. There is a standardized texture to the whole thing and even the mei is large and deep enough to see the same graininess inside of it. So I think the mei (which I can’t translate) is part of the mold. The nakago-ana looks modern and clean and the tsuba appears to never have been mounted. All that points to an export piece. Now we’ll see if I should have kept my mouth shut. Haha. Cheers.

@GRC, hahaha. Yeah, I went through the exact same thought process with that listing.

I agree with your taste Colin. The gold distracts from the image as a whole. Yours has a stronger presence with just the eye highlighted. Also goes with the whole “less is more” aesthetic of Japanese art.

The person who figures out how to protect e-books from being pirated is going to make a lot of money.

"with the legs working in mutual disorder" is an amazing description for an otherwise inanimate object! I like it!

@SRDRowson nice tsuba! I love learning new Shinto stories. It's one of my tsuba collection points. Collect all the stories. It's sort of like a two-in-one of Japanese collecting. Shinto and tsuba, both distinctly Japanese.

It’s the base model. Manual locks and no air conditioning. 🚙😂

I really like the look of old used wood.