Jon

Cheers Ray, I’m assuming there is no issue with the Hozon papers being brown ?

I’m a little confused by this paper for a Tanto I purchased, it’s clearly Hozon as it does not have the kanji for tokubetsu..but it’s on brown paper for a Tokubetsu ( it’s really brown)..now I know the older hozon papers were a darker yellow, but this is brown… I’ve placed a newer hozon and older hozon paper next to it for comparison. do the colour of hozon papers vary that much ? also any information on what the paper says would be appreciated.

Cheers Mal really helpful thankyou. jon

Could anyone tell me what these papers say about this Uda smith and the generation ? cheers Jon

Did the owner of the sword have big hands or little hands, what did he prefer..remember before anything else a Nihonto was a weapon of war, with life and death outcomes…any small margins like your preferred handle length would be important to the warrior…as with blade lengths… decrees may or may not have happened, but if a warrior was short and he needed a shorter katana He would have a shorter katana…if he was tall and could manage the length he would take the longer sword.

Don’t forget to oil after cleaning with alcohol.

So that is the first time I have ever seen a newly drilled Ana….it beggars the question how old does an Ana have to be before it’s acceptable…..after all a Koto may have had a number of new Ana put in right up until the 1876 sword abolishment act and 1877 defeat of the Satsuma rebellion..that ended the samurai. So any Ana put in before 1877 would be historically cogent any Ana put in after that would be some from of restoration……most definitely not an acceptable thing to do to to an old sword…..but that we happy remove metal and reshape blades during polishing….interesting.

As a person who is only 2 years into his Nihonto collecting my suggestion would be study the books and then buy a nice blade in Polish at a lower price point..using this as a study piece then moving along. You can get a very nice papered blade in Polish for 3-5000 …better to have a number of blades to learn from and rotate in and out your collection than one trophy piece that your knowledge is so far behind that you cannot really appreciate what your the custodian of. My first blade cost me £2000 and it’s loved and cherished…i have a total of 5 blades in polish with papers at present..2 I plan to keep the others will be moved on when I’ve fully studied them….on the other hand if I had spent the cost of a mustang or Jaguar on my first sword I’m not sure I would have the same attachment. One day I will buy that perfect sword as the centre of my collection …but not for a good number of years until I can fully appreciate it and know what my perfect sword is. as for investing…. From what I have seen you’re not going to be making money from that level of sword you have purchased from a higher end dealer…the market is not really an investment market. Once you know what to look for maybe getting lucking in an auction maybe…..but any antique or collectible is alway a gamble if your investing ( I’m a coin collector and dealer and even with years of knowledge, sometimes I have to a accept a loss of money on a piece…..I’f no one wants the piece you’ve got to hold onto it or loss money…and collectible/antiques/arts a funny market….)

Cheers Bryce, interesting Thankyou…I really like the top blade it does capture that falchion style really well.

Falchions are really interesting swords, lots of brilliant academic debate around Falchions…they are probably just about the rarest style of sword in existence…they were made over around a 400-500 year period ( Middle Ages) but there are only around 20 ( maybe as low as 12….it’s a bit of a debated subject) authentic blades in existence…it seems that although they were ubiquitous in medieval art they were infact almost never used or produced, it’s simply not credible for so few to have survived if it was a widely produced sword. They are really stunning blades…but hard to find and you’re only ever going to see them behind glass. There are two it’s possible to view in the UK: the Thorpe Falchion in Norwich castle ( 1320 blade) is the best…it’s not a very big blade ( blade is 31.5 ish inches from memory)…it spent a few hundred years under water…but it’s still amazing to see. The surviving swords are all generally very light weight weapons indeed…with one having a spine of only 1.2 mm. although single edge the back edge would have generally been sharpened at the tip…they were very much slashing weapons used against mainly cloth armoured opponents ..they had that super cutting shape that’s useless against metal armour types and does not like bone much….it did not seem to have the same level of longevity or ubiquity as the back sword ( which was easer and cheaper to make) and was essentially superseded by the sabre ( which essentially has the same purpose with a slightly less interesting blade shape).

I’m trying to decide if I find this an bit ugly or really interesting or just maybe both at the same time. Most swords and Japanese blades in particular have an aesthetic and shape that feels right….they are profoundly well designed tools of war and that always has created something that feels and looks right …from a sax to a rapier they all have something….even the profoundly oddly weighted cabbage cutter is an interesting sword to hold…this does not seem to have that at all, very strange thing indeed ( maybe it’s some form of experimental kitchen knife perhaps….)..I think the only odder sword i can think of would be a ngulu and that was never intended for combat ( just executions)….

Does anyone have a picture of an acid Polish…it would be an interesting addition to the thread.

Hi Geriant, cheers for that, really sound advice Thankyou. Having a really good look I can see what you mean. I think I will step away from this one. Thankyou for the advice. Regards Jon

Sunlight actually can increase the rate of rust formation. Light enhanced oxidisation…old things should always be kept in the dark.

Seller has another blade listed exactly the same has before…clearly got a batch from china….but the seller is very clearly and carefully making no claims about the blade. With a returns policy that has a 20% restocking charge when people realise what they have purchased and want to give it back.

AGuys your a bunch of absolute jems, cheers for that info ray and Alexi. As requested a couple of pictures.

Hi just doing a bit of research on a blade I’m thinking of purchasing, it’s papered, just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on the smith ?

Does anyone have any information on Minamoto Yoshiteru, he was an active smith in the Gendaito era.

Can I just point out it was not me that resurrected it…it was all Alexi’s fault not mine….I did not even notice the dates on the posts…being old and a bit….well….oblivious.

Wooden sword…that’s a bit posh……I just had a plastic one that bent as soon as you hit something or someone with it…

You have to remember that only Japanese swords are polished to the extent that significant levels of metal are removed…we do not treat European swords like that….there is a very specific reason for this and that is to study the character of the steel... In reality a gimie is not a fake, it’s simply an authentic artefact that at some point in its history someone has added a signature to…..this has been ongoing with Nihonto since the koto period…in reality this is a part of the story of Nihonto ( and this is going to rub a few people up the wrong way, but I’m an historian first) removing these signatures ( that are essentially a part of the Japanese culture..even if they don’t really like it much) is an act of cultural vandalism….yes it would be lovely for the present collectors of Nihonto if every Gimie signature was scrubbed from every Nihonto…..but at what loss….if every signature was valid then a vast array of study and knowledge becomes simply pointless…a significant part of the history of Nihonto is removed…the only issue I really have is the shadow of false papers as that was essentially fraud and still is ( the papers hold no historic value and tell no story). as an aside one of my other passions is numismatic study ( as the history of currency is interesting) and one of the things you see is a lot of historic fakes…I’m not taking about something made in china…but a fake made when the coin was in circulation….we don’t destroy these we collect them and study them as part of the history of currencies…a great example is the 1883 racketeer nickel…these were liberty head nickels that were gold plated by a guy called josh Tatum…the first few million of the 1883 nickel was struck without the worlds five cents..and it look like the $5 gold coin…so Tatum gold plated them …walked into a shop purchased something for 5 cents and handed over the coin…he never asked for change…he just got change given..in the end he was tried but found innocent….it’s not a crime to make a coin pretty..he never said it a 5 dollar coin he just used valid 5 cent coin and purchased a 5 cent item……he was then handed change ……..now there are lots of gold plated 1883 five cents about which ones are a contemporary Tatum fake ?…….I’ve got lots of fakes in my collection including some great fake 1830s shillings from 1830…. This value of the fake does move into the art world…one of the most famous forgers of art work…the teenage Michelangelo got his start as an artist in the 15 century faking antiquities to sell to renaissance collectors…..they started off costing a lot as very ancient works of art…..became worthless michalengelo knock offs and then became valuable as they were recognised as an authentic Michelangelo knock off of an ancient work of art. Imagine someone destroying or damaging a michalengelo…..what happens if one day the very creation of Mei or Gimie becomes appreciated….as an artfully created fake signature and the 20c destroyers of these signatures are cursed for cultural vandalism. History is easily destroyed and impossible to rebuild…art is fashion….things go in and out of fashion….never destroy history…even if it’s the history of fakery….just be honest about what it is…….respect the history and consider what that koto or EDO period faker of mie was doing….it’s history… don’t remove something from history that was carefully created by a human being many hundreds of years ago for a specific purpose…even if that purpose was a bit suspect.

That’s a pretty respectable timeframe really when you consider how quickly things like Halloween and Valentine’s Day all turned into money making nonsense as soon as they came in contact with the 20 century…..

Yes they do an antique leather conditioner ( they call it antique leather dressing) it’s a good one.

It all depends if you’re coming at it from the point of view of an historian or a collector of Japanese’s art swords….it has had different means at different times.. 1) a short and long sword worn as a pair 2) a short and long sword with matching fittings 3) a short and long matched set of blades from the same smith as well as matches fittings they are actually all correct definitions of Daisho and also wrong if taken in the wrong context.. for your jobbing warrior in the Muromachi period it was simply a larger and smaller sword, as this gave him a competitive edge in combat…and the idea of it having matching fittings was only for the wealthy and important…if you told him it had to be a matched pair of blades with matching fittings it may have ended badly….for your EDO samurai the Daisho was a badge of office with heavy regulations…by 1629 it was required in law for samurai and had the concept of formal Daisho as well as duty Daisho…so at that point the Daisho had moved to the concept of a short and long sword with a matched set of fittings…it’s it bit more difficult to really understand when the concept moved to it being paired blades as that’s more a art thing than a history thing….…but it did.

Hi Sam lovely find, a really nice sugata, maybe worth getting a professional view on a Polish, a Nagasa of 16 inches would keep the cost within reason. re the military leather saya cover…antique or vintage leather is one of the few materials that a novice can really go to town on and make a big difference with little risk of harm and infact can stop further damage ( I’ve don’t a few old leather projects and with care it’s fine). a few basic rules to follow: Do not: 1)use any liquids on the leather especially anything water based…old leather will suck in water the moment you put it on and will irreversibly stain and damage..water is the enemy of old leather. 2) move the leather or try and manipulate it to become loose and supple…only leather will have lost all its natural oils or conditioners…if you move it..bend it or manipulate it it can split and break. 3) be tempted to clean off dirt and other contamination…see above for washing with water and manipulating…your will likely damage the leather doing either at this point. what you need to do: is get your leather conditioner of choice ( there are plenty of good ones and they are all much of a muchness…then apply using a clean soft cloth ( say lint free cotton)..keep applying very 12-24 hours..the leather will absorb the condition and slightly darken..keep doing this until the leather stops absorbing the conditioner..after you have done this the leather will be more supple and you can thing about moving the leather to get to any areas you could not before and repeat process. At the point it’s been conditioned you can start to think about cleaning and using a leather cleaner to carefully remove contaminants..being aware of any potential damage under this….I generally recondition again after cleaning. Being more of a collector of historic items instead of a purist collector of Nihonto, I would keep it with its world war 2 saya as its part of its history..and if you do go for a Polish just get a new shirasaya made as part of the polishing and preservation of the blade.