drjoe

wait a minute... showa-to are monosteel AND oil quenched? just to be clear, couldn't some showa-to be not quenched at all, or folded steel but not tamahagane (mantetsu, etc.), or even monosteel but water quenched (assuming that was even done)? my guesses were based simply on what i thought might not be tamahagane AND water quenched (i.e. "traditionally made").

i love that there is no consensus! i'm just an ignorant newbie, but i'll guess 1, 5, 9, 10. and possibly 4, 6, and 8 as well.

sukenobu is listed as RJT in dr. stein's site (actually, there are two, but only one "noshu ju sukenobu"). another blade posted by moses -- the jigane and hada seem strikingly similar and the mei seems to match -- also claims RJT: http://www.nihontoantiques.com/fss162.htm though as you can see, while there is a date on that one, neither have a star stamp. anyway, i could be wrong, but i was just raising the question of whether some folks may have been removing stars for a while due to the stigma, while now they may be back in vogue. funny how this saga matches one of dr. suess' greatest stories and life lessons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3yJomUhs0g

at one time, i owned this RJT blade by Sukenobu. very nice hada with swirls of mokume. seemed obviously made using traditional methods. http://nihontoantiques.com/fss260.htm the funny thing was, looking at the nakago (hard to tell from this photo), i always had the impression that a stamp might have been removed...

moses becerra has the same graph on his site: http://nihontoantiques.com/sword%20details.htm on the left, click on "sword eras"

now that everything's sold, i'm surprised that no one speculated that something might have been made in china... there's that thick lamination line... viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7736

this discussion reminded me of this video, which i found amusing (at least the first 2/3 or so before it degenerates)...

a couple of random thoughts as a teacher and student of many things... i remember in college thinking there were two kinds of good students -- those that worked hard and studied a lot, and those that were naturally brilliant and were able to grasp things readily. i was one of the ones who needed to work hard. in general i think we did better in school because it meant we cared a bit more (this is the dedication part), but i don't think that necessarily correlates with success later in life. art may be a little different, since a lot of it seems to be about creativity. i think that there are innate characteristics that give some a significant leg up on certain things. some examples come to mind... some people can naturally draw, others can't. some can picture things very well in three dimensions, some can't. some of the great jazz musicians were said to be self-taught -- some never even learned to read music -- though that's not to say that they didn't practice for hours and hours -- they did. it's just that they did indeed have a special kind of talent that allowed them to learn or think in a different way. some of that -- probably most of it -- is based in our own individual neuronal wiring. i sometimes think about this as it applies to nihonto appreciation. i remember writing my amazon review on the nagayama book on nihonto. i read that book trying to learn as much as i could, but without high-definition photos showing what was meant in the text, it had limited utility for me at the time. in my review, i talked about how that doesn't detract from the book necessarily -- you can't really expect to learn auto mechanics, or how to read an EKG, but just reading books. so, definitely there's a key aspect of learning how to do something that requires actually seeing and doing. learning about nihonto is difficult -- i have all the english language books and a few Japanese texts with great pictures and i drive 300 miles to token kai each year, but i feel like i hardly know anything. most books lack the kind of great pictures that are really needed to illustrate things, whereas up close at token kai, there's no accompanying text. there are a few people i now know that i talk to, but a certain degree of social anxiety, as well as embarassment when people start talking about specific smiths, schools, etc. that i have no idea about, inhibits me from learning more. the best solution would be to join the local club and learn from experts, but this is both intimidating and requires more interest and dedication that i seem to have. i was thinking about buying a copy of a recent dai token ichi catalog that was for sale for something like $20 this year, but there was no english text whatsoever. so, i didn't think it would be helpful. the seller said, well, you have to learn. i'm not totally sure what he meant -- but learning Japanese seemed like more than i was able to commit. so, it's back to dedication again. i'm continually humbled in life by the amount of dedication and practice needed to get good at something. i have so many interests that i tend to be more of a jack of all trades, master of none (or few). the truth is that i wish it was as easy to learn as it was in "the matrix" ("i know kung fu!"), but it isn't. for whatever reason, i think many of us feel that we can just pick something up on our own (by reading a book, watching a youtube video, etc.), and some are more able to do this than others (again, the innate part). but at the same time, dedication and practice will always be needed for mastery, and actually taking lessons and learning from a good teacher seems vital to avoid self-delusion (no wonder then that swordmakers revere Fudo Myoo, whose own sword cleaves such ignorance).

fwiw, it's much like this in swordsmanship. my teacher often says that unlike how we grow up learning not to cheat in school by copying the work of other students, in sword class we are supposed to constantly copy the movements of other (especially senior) students. as an instructor myself who likes to explain things, i'm also often chided for talking too much, and not simply doing the technique repetitively with the students following along. on the other hand, i can also think of one student who's been training for a couple of years now, and he seems to always have to turn his head to look at someone else to remember how to do the technique. if he can't watch, he tends to get stuck or lost. what's interesting though is when you ask him to teach something to a new student, without the ability to watch someone else anymore, he improves quite a bit. that seems to say something else about the evolution of one's development as an artist.

well, the beauty of a free market economy is that the current market value is whatever the blades actually sell for, no more or less. at the same time, i agree that offering and selling blades at prices that are so low that they undermine the sustainability of the artform is a bad idea. but then i've also heard that some smiths complain about the 2 blade/month limit and argue that this prevents them from making a living. if what's being discussed in this thread is true, it suggests that smiths may be revolting against this edict, and that more production could drive prices down but also bring in more income for smiths and make it more profitable for them. that's not necessarily a bad thing, though it could likely adversely affect quality. then there's also the angle that if more people can afford swords as they become cheaper, there will be more demand and eventually great appreciation for the art in general, which may also be vital for sustainability. anyway, this is all kind of off topic. i'm glad you weren't offended. it will be curious to see how much these blades go for. it has made me think about bidding on a couple of these blades, if only to attempt to sell them elsewhere for a sum more akin to what i think they're really worth.

touche, though technically i said "low grade," not "low quality," by which i simply meant gendaito/shinsakuto that seem more in the "dojo" than "art" category, as reflected by both their appearance and the asking price and/or low starting bids. in any case, i do apologize for posting a link to your blade and drawing it into this conversation. in my view, gimei or not (and i am in no way suggesting anything about yours), all of the blades we've mentioned are currently being offered at bargain prices.

i'm just a beginner here, but it seems to me the rules of this subforum are well stated in the sticky, and that accordingly members tend to limit themselves to comments about the blade itself. although i have no delusion of finding an undiscovered national treasure on ebay, or really even using ebay at all to purchase a nihonto, i do enjoy perusing the listings there on a regular basis and i have started several similar threads inquiring about whether items are as represented or to corroborate doubts and suspicions i've had. this has been an invaluable service to a beginner who is learning, so i'd like to see it continue for active listings. as noted, it seems like commenting could affect price in either direction, but it also seems to me that the risks of commenting on a sale are still present once the sale is complete (e.g. buyer purchases blade, asks about it here, decides based on comments something is gimei or crap, then demands a refund, and then maybe the blade eventually gets reposted).

well it does seem interesting that they are all suguha, and mostly with a conspiciously coarse lamination line running through the hamon. similar to this one as well: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHINSAKUTO-Gend ... 1c2aa32e6c there seems to be a glut of low grade shinsakuto on ebay right now -- not a bad deal for someone looking for an iai blade... http://www.ebay.com/sch/katsuragi_japan ... 4340.l2562

in case anyone is still interested in the content of the book before they buy, check out my review on amazon: http://www.amazon.com/The-Art-Japanese- ... r-mr-title feel free to give a "helpful" vote if you find it so! thanks -- at $30, it's a steal.

google is your friend: http://westcoasttaikai.com/cart/

right, but this sword isn't being sold -- at least at this time -- at the price that the antique from this maker would cost. fwiw, the new yoshindo yoshihara book says that an utsushimono is "a new sword made in the same style as an extant older sword," but then all the examples by yoshindo are in fact "exact" copies of specific blades (including extra mekugi ana, etc.), and attributed as such. still you can probably chalk this up to semantics. maybe we should agree to call the blade in this post a franken-utsushimono.

koto kagemitsu? really? bad photos, but i'm guessing this isn't a kamakura blade. and the oshigata in the 2nd photo doesn't seem to match. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-JP-Swor ... 1c29ec5872

here are a few mediocre pictures: A tsuba made by Miyamoto Mushashi: Blades by Koto era Gassan and Gassan Sadakatsu: Some papered nihonto: Some cute bunnies: Yoshihara Family blades: Osoraku tanto by Yoshindo Yoshihara: Yoshindo Yoshihara inspects the tanto I made at Dragonfly Forge (is that a nod of approval?):

there is a much better picture here of this tsuba on page 11 of this old ncjsc newsletter: http://www.ncjsc.org/ncjsc_10sep_v001.pdf

this document seems to refer to the striations. what does it say about them?

it was the best picture i could take through glass and with the relatively poor lighting in the meeting room. also, as far i know, it's not for sale. thanks to fred for showing it, along with some wonderful tokubetsu juyo and juyo blades.

i assure you he did. see francis boyd's bio on him (page 2 especially): http://www.francisboyd.com/monogatari.htm http://www.francisboyd.com/monogatari_2.htm http://www.francisboyd.com/monogatari_3.htm

This is a Musashi tsuba that most people are probably familiar with that was on display at SF Token Kai. My apologies to owner Fred Weissberg for posting the picture without permission -- will happily delete if necessary. Anyway, I heard an interesting legend from a friend at the show about Musashi's tsuba that relates to the small striations that appear in the tsuba where the two sea cucumbers meet (at 12 and 6 o'clock). Without giving away the legend, has anyone heard about these striations, do you think they were intentionally carved, and if so, what are they!?

yes, i was asking because i know the number of blades out there is slim. there is a seller that had two kozuka made of silver and a habaki by muneyoshi, and i have held a yasuhiro in my hands. but i'd like to see more if there's something out there.

if that was you at the show, thanks again for letting me see the blade. i enjoyed it very much.