seanyx11

Definitely. I was looking at a safe about 60" tall by 24" by 24" or so I believe. It would be bolted to the concrete slab, so it ain't going anywhere I'll have to look in to the katanadansu, as I'm more concerned with preserving and protecting my blades than displaying them. Though, it would be nice to be able to do both at the same time, of course.

Nice!! I guess this was the sword you were asking about the hishigami in the other thread. I have to say, I'm extremely impressed you were able to restore it to such a good looking condition. I can only hope that more people have the ambition and perseverance to see a project through like this, in order to preserve more Japanese blades. Congratulations sir, and bravo

Yes, this sounds familiar I started with Chinese repros, since they were cheap and I could cut with them without stressing about ruining a piece of history. I still have quite a few on a wall rack in my room, but I'm slowly selling them off to make room for more Nihonto. If I decide to get a display for my Nihonto, I would definitely want some sort of case that can be locked to prevent "touchy-feely types" as well. I may just leave them as is and appreciate them when I study them. I actually do have the AC running constantly in my house, for the exact reason that it is so humid and hot here. Someone is almost always home, so there's no reason to turn it off. I can't imagine how humid it must be in a tropical climate like Hawaii I'm sure fighting off rust is a daily chore for you. If I do end up getting a case, I'll put some sort of desiccant/dry-rod in there for sure though, but I've heard it can be just as bad if its too dry as well, so I'll have to keep an eye on it with a humidity gauge or something. Yessir I remember you suggesting those for me, since I liked your setup. We have 5 cats in my house, so just keeping hair out would be another reason to get some sort of case. Though, only 2 cats come into the room it would be in, its still something to keep in mind. I actually have those rechargeable moisture beads for my AR-15 case, so I'm sure I could use it the same way. That case is awesome!! I bet that cost a few bucks to have built. Eventually I may like to have something like that, but for now with only 1 Nihonto to display, it would be overkill. I do like that setup though man, very nice work I've thought about this as well. I'm torn between wanting to see my beautiful blade all the time and keeping it safe. The other thing is that I don't yet have a safe for it. I have been meaning to get a big gun safe for my pistols and AR-15, which I could obviously store my swords in as well. I'm thinking it may be a good idea to get a safe first and then worry about the display cases later.

I guess I overestimated the amount of folks that actually display these swords in cases

Hello my fellow Nihonto lovers. I've finally gotten my Rai Kinmichi that I had started a thread on about being my first proper, papered nihonto a couple months ago. I could barely sleep the night before I got it on Wednesday, and have just been trying to soak it all up as much as possible the last couple of days. When I get a chance, I'll attempt to take some pictures of it to add to my original thread, along with my thoughts on it. Anyway, since this is my first proper Nihonto, I'd like to get a nice display case for it. A friend who also collects swords suggested one from Amazon, with a wooden frame and acrylic door with keylock. They only cost about $90-$110 depending on if its big enough for 1 sword or 2 swords. My question is, for those of you guys that use display cases, what kind of case do you use? Do you recommend airtight cases, or will normal wooden cases be fine? I live in Atlanta, GA, in the Southeast Unites States, which is a fairly humid climate during the summer time, though the case will be in a house with central air, as well as being in a bedroom with an extra window AC unit. So, the blade will be in a climate controlled room at about 70deg Fahreneheit, though humidity is unknown. I'm sure I can add some sort of desiccant or dehumidifier made for gun safes and the like, if need be. I'd like to keep the cost below $200, if possible, but I'm willing to do what it takes to make sure that the sword is properly stored to prevent rust or any other form of deterioration. Any and all suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Here's a link to the one on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002V18WX8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A2E4AR5NPCCQ1P&psc=1

Unbelievable. I'm so glad I decided to do some more research, buy a few books, join NMB and ultimately learn what to look for before potentially buying something like this. Not to mention, steering clear of ebay until I was more knowledgeable about everything. I'm sure there are a few good swords here and there, but I can't imagine a beginner being able to find one without a lot of luck. Granted, I did buy my first proper, papered Nihonto before buying any books, but I had done quite a bit of research and luckily stumbled upon Danny @ Nihontocraft.com. I could've easily ended up with something like this from ebay, if I had gotten in a hurry trying to get a cheap price.

I was also curious about this being a true ikubi kissaki, as opposed to a ko kissaki/chu kissaki (depending on how you want to look at it I guess). I didn't want to point out a mistake being so new, plus I thought maybe I misunderstood the meaning of ikubi kissaki myself. Just to be clear, I'm pretty sure that both swords are not true ikubi kissaki and basically just ko kissaki, correct? I actually really like short ko kissaki, though they seem to be few and far between...ikubi kissaki on the other hand, I haven't seen any other than in books as examples.

I've never attempted to do any sort of tsukamaki, but coming from a collector's point of view, I prefer hishigami. When done properly, it absolutely makes the ito look much more uniform and symmetrical, in my humble opinion. It also has the added benefit of sort of "filling in" the parts of the ito on both sides of the twists, which also makes the transition from the twists to the sides much more uniform. The hishigami also serves to mold itself to the samegawa, so when it hardens (the hishigami) it holds the ito in place against the same. Of course, if the ito is done properly and pulled tight, it shouldn't move anyway, but the hishigami definitely helps to hold it in place against the same even more. Though my experience is limited compared to most on here, I would still suggest to just keep practicing with using the hishigami. I think you will see better results in the end, after getting used to using them. I've had a few custom swords made, and every professional I've talked to about having tsukamaki done, uses hishigami. Just some food for thought.

That. is. Awesome. I don't usually like flashy colors and on my koshirae, but I have to say that looks amazing. I personally would've gone with a darker blue ito, instead of the sky blue...but I'm still loving it as is. Nice work man. I can't even imagine the amount of time and detail that had to go into making that saya. You guys have apparently learned a measure of patience that has yet eluded me, I would've chewed my hand off while waiting for that to be finished.

This is awesome. Great work Andrew. I'm glad to see someone forward thinking with this antique hobby of ours. I'm definitely going to be following this closely, as I'm extremely reluctant to want to send my blade off to Japan to get work done. With this, I can still enjoy my blade at home while the 3D printed tsunagi is off getting fitted for koshirae, habaki or shirasaya etc. and I won't care that its gone for 6 months to 1 year (or even more). I think this would also be hugely beneficial to the preservation of polishes, where you won't have to be so worried about sending a sword in fresh polish off to get a new shirasaya made for it. Like Andrew said, you can have the habaki and shirasaya being made while the polish is being done, saving valuable time and grey hairs from the stress of sending a freshly polished blade off to Japan. I'm so excited to hear the results of this and I'll definitely be looking for a local place to get a professional 3d scan done if it works.

I too love Shinto era swords, but not necessarily more than Koto blades. I just can't afford TH Koto swords in good polish, so I'll stick with mostly Shinto for now and maybe one day when I grow up and get big, I can get some lovely Kamakura or Nambokucho swords. I've been extremely fortunate to be able to see several Koto, Shinto, Shinshinto, and gendai blades in good polish up close for as long as I wanted and could ask questions as well. This was definitely, as you said, an eye opening experience for me to be able to see all the differences in jigane, sugata, yakiba, kissaki, and boshi between the different eras and even periods within an era (e.g. kamakura & nambokucho). Alas, I'll have to keep my collecting to mostly Shinto and maybe some late Muromachi Koto blades for now and hopefully one day I can manage to get a few kamakura & nambokucho blades as well. I'm not even against a shinshinto or gendai (though I doubt I'll ever want a shinsakuto, but you never know I guess), especially if its the right price and it really "speaks to me".

Ahh yes, so I was pretty close there. This definitely makes sense though, since it takes so much time to teach an apprentice how to forge swords. They would never have had enough time to do so with all of the blades having to be produced at the time. Its amazing to me how such seemingly small details at the time ended up creating an entirely new way to make swords, while at the same time losing forever the methods used to forge those uniquely brilliant kamakura & Nambokucho blades. Interesting stuff indeed sir

Not yet but I have read Yumoto, Nagayama, Sato, and Yoshihara's books so far once. Oh and most of Robinson's Primer as well. Only have fact and fundamentals and Botts book left to read since they were the last I got. I'm a fairly quick study, but I'm always looking to learn more no matter how much I think I know (or don't in this case). Yes!! Thank you Grey. I will put that on my wish list on your website, which is up to 7 or 8 books now. I'm about to pull the trigger on that Fujishiro set you've got with the English translation copies. I'm also really considering getting the Brown Hawley book and Vol 4 Shinto of Nihonto Koza as well. Just gotta find a money tree somewhere and I'll be good to go Thank you James I just downloaded that PDF and its now in my folder with several other ebooks I've come across.

Thanks Brian I was wondering what had happened. I only wish I could remember what book was suggested in those lost posts, maybe I could PM Grey to see if he remembers what it was exactly.

Forging techniques would have been passed on through apprenticeship, which takes 5 years I believe. I'm pretty sure that the cities that were most prominent in sword making during kamakura & muromachi ended up changing to different ones when the civil war ended and Shinto era began. So, since travel and communication was not near as easy as it is today, it would've been harder for smiths that knew these older forging methods during koto, to pass along those methods to smiths in other cities that were now more prominent in sword making. Is this the conclusion you were trying to get me to come to? Brian - There are quite a few recent posts missing from this thread, is something wrong?

This is such a good question about the Japanese smiths emigrating and making traditionally made swords somewhere other than Japan. And conversely, Chinese smith trained by Japanese smith but making them in Japan. I know that for most Nihonto collectors if its not made in Japan under their strict codes and traditions, its not a true nihonto. If a Japanese smith in say, Hawaii, has access to real Japanese black sand and makes his own tamahagane in a tatara, or just is able to obtain already made true Japanese tamahagane, and has been trained in the traditional ways, forges blades in the traditional ways. Would this not be every bit equal to one forged of the exact same materials in the exact same ways, but in Japan? Obviously, it wouldn't be recognized by any organizations, like NBTHK or NTHK as true nihonto, so it wouldn't be papered, but all things being equal, it is still a Japanese made sword no? I'm sure this topic has been beaten to death over the years, but its interesting to think about these types of things. I for one, like to collect good looking swords regardless of where it was made, but I also obviously appreciate and admire the traditional authentically made nihonto as well. Very interesting topic here, good stuff.

I'm not sure what dates you mean, I was saying that the civil war during sengoku & muromachi period had created the need for mass produced blades that were low quality and once the civil war was over and keicho period began in the beginning of the Shinto era, they no longer needed these mass produced blades so they started to create more artistic valued swords. The Shinto smiths tried to recreate the kamakura & nambokucho blades, but ended up making shorter katana sized blades due to the o-suriage nature of those older blades they were trying to replicate. Since they were cut down, they had less sori and were not quite as big either, and of course, with no civil war going on they no longer needed to be only for battle and could be made to be more ornate.

Yes, those would've been useful for answering some of the questions I didn't look at them until after I'd already posted my answer though and I had much more in depth info from the book. I will save those charts though, as they are a great reference for sugata as it relates to necessary function.

The only thing I can discern from my current book about the Shinto forging methods, is that they had access to better steel during this time so they did not need to use the same methods as Koto smiths. They (Shinto smiths) also invented new methods due to having better steel, like kobuse. I do know that they tried to replicate a lot of the swords from Koto, but most had been cut down to katana size and were o-suriage, so they ended up making shorter swords than what would've been produced in the Koto era. Plus, daisho were gaining popularity, so they made katana and wakizashi more often than tachi, and kenjutsu was also coming around during this time so they needed shorter katana sized swords with less sori for this (that's my take on it anyway). The reason the Shinto & shinshinto smiths made more "ornate" swords than Koto smiths, was because there was a civil war going on through much of the muromachi period and the swords had needed to be mass produced very quickly. Once the country was unified by Nobunaga and Hideyoshi, they no longer needed these quickly produced low quality swords. So, the Shinto smiths recreated those kamakura and nambokucho blades that were o-suriage and made more quality artistic swords that were katana sized as a result. Plus, the government used to give brave warriors land and with the shortage of land they started giving them swords instead. These swords were to be appraised for artistic value and Honami family came up with the system for kantei and started issuing origami certificates. Which brings us back around to the original statement of looking at sugata first in kantei pretty cool.

Yes, that definitely makes sense to look at sugata first in kantei. If you know your history of what function a particular sugata serves, then you should be able to place it into a specific period, which should narrow the school/smith down considerably. Process of elimination in a way. I'll resist the urge to google it I'm pretty close to this part of Nagayama's book, so I'll get back to you on that one later tonight.

Thanks for suggestion Robert. I will definitely put that on my ever growing list

I didn't mean that the historical information was redundant, I meant that almost every book I've looked at has the same basic things in each one, e.g., sugata type, nakago shape, hamon type, kissaki shape, boshi, etc. There's only so many ways you can write these generally agreed upon things, that's what I meant by redundant info, not the actual history of Japan. I love reading about that stuff. To answer your question though, the reason the Kamakura smiths changed to heavier weapons of war was because the Mongolians invaded in 1274 and they were the first enemy to have heavy leather armor that required stronger swords. I learned that from reading the Nagayama book . I haven't gotten far enough to know the reason for the Shinto smiths not being able to recreate the Kamakura forging methods. So, I'm with you here, I'm not just reading to regurgitate information. I'm really trying to learn the why's and how's and not just the who, what and where.

Yes, I've noticed quite a bit of redundant material, but I was expecting as much with so many beginner type books. Like you said though, there are enough differences between them to warrant reading them all I think. I'm glad I found this forum, otherwise I'd have been stuck with only searching/reading from the internet and we all know how unreliable that can be sometimes.

Not to make light of my ignorance or anything...but I feel like a kid sitting at the kid's table at Thanksgiving (or any big holiday dinner) listening to the adults talk and having no idea what they are talking about I guess its not so much that I don't know what you guys are talking about, I do understand WHAT you guys were trying to do, but I still have so much to learn in order to figure out HOW Ray came to the conclusion he did. Being able to spot a specific smith's work from examing the differences in hada and hamon, blade shape, geometry, etc, is just awesome. I've got my work cut out for me.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I think I'm good for a while, so I'm going to be reading and learning over the next couple months while paying off the Kinmichi Wak from Danny @ Nihontocraft. The final list of books I got or ones I'm waiting for are: The Samurai Sword by John M. Yumoto The Japanese Sword by Kanzan Sato Facts and Fundamentals of Japanese Swords by Nobuo Nakahara The Connoisseur's Book of Japanese Swords by Kokan Nagayama The Art of the Japanese Sword by Kapp & Yoshihara A Primer of Japanese Sword-Blades by B.W. Robinson (on its way) The Swords of Japan by J. Bott (on its way) I'm reading the Yumoto and Sato books right now, and learning some great stuff. I'm sure I'll be asking for more recommendations once I progress in my knowledge, but thanks again for all the help guys