doug e lewis

Yes, Henry-san, the 16th century Chinese folk tale called "Monkey"l has the story of the monkeys trying to capture the moon. Read it in college, still have a tattered copy. Siince i am going to get a new/used copy from Amazon here is part of their synopsis : Probably the most popular book in the history of the Far East, this classic sixteenth century novel is a combination of picaresque novel and folk epic that mixes satire, allegory, and history into a rollicking adventure. It is the story of the roguish Monkey and his encounters with major and minor spirits, gods, demigods, demons, ogres, monsters, and fairies. It was Mao's favorate novel! Would love to see it made into a animated movie ala Avatar. Themes and stories from Monkey are all over Edo period art. Doug e

Reinhard san, Thank you for your kind reply to my post. It wasn't really directed at you; well, maybe a little. Your post just pushed a button --- other posts in other threads have seemed to lead me to that very unproductive rant. And posting while others are still composing their thoughts is a problem I have notice here before. So it goes. We all live in different time zones, and in Nobody's, Mr. Turner's, and other's cases, even different days! I actually look forward to your commentary on any nihonto or nihonto "related" post you have the time and interest to respond to. Mr.Watson san, your posts have opened up a whole new world of "nihonto related" interest for me in the Japanese arquebus (teppon, correct?). I was aware of them, of course, and the extent they were used and gradually changed the tactics of battle, but the variety and beauty of them I had ignored for a long time. My friend who gave me "The craft of the Japanese Sword", jump starting my interest in nihonto, even occasionally showed me guns he was restoring, but I was stuck on swords & fittings! Thank you! Doug

Reinhard, I would think that ashigaru armor is " generally nihonto related". Yeah, as a guilty one of offering "I like this or that" or "feelings", you have a good point, Reinhard, and I will restrain myself from giving those types of opinions that likely are interesting only to me. I know next to nothing about Japanese armor so anything is a great treat and learning opportunity to me. But again to your point. So what is a good forum for me to go to learn about such non-nihonto stuff? I, of course, expect you to point out that I know less that next to nothing about nihonto, or anything related to it, and should probably not venture any comment of opinion on the sacred NMB. You may be right ----- but I won't stop. I will try to be more to the point, and ask more questions rather than voice MHO about something. I do know a little, a mote of knowledge compared to yourself and many other NMB posters, but the only way I can learn if I am getting something right is to post my humble observations and be confirmed or corrected. So please skip over my posts so you are not offended, of let the moderators delete them if they like, or block me. I've been 86'ed from worse places for lesser reasons. Okay, back to Nihonto 101. doug e

Eric, Thank you for sharing the high & low ends of samurai armor. I know I have enjoyed the lively discussion your post started. Ya just never know on the NMB. I agree that both have their place in collecting, not only as cultual artifacts, but as art. Even the simple armor of the ashigaru has a certain rustic artistic quality to it. Sort of like American folk art or craftsman school. Everybody's tastes and financial status are different, however, so not every nihonto collector will collect the foot soldier's armorment. Some can afford to get it all and do, or that same well off collector may just focus his collecting to the high end for reasons of taste. Others, like myself, can only afford low end so that's what I get; hopefully to trade up to better stuff; or save and get that great papered sword or tsuba someday. I learn from every fake piece indentified by NMB mermbers cause they give their reasins why. Conversely, when the aspects of a true piece are discussed I can get a sense of what to look for in real nihonto. Thanks all. My 1 cent [inflation] Doug

Hi again Carl,. I realized that a site where I started out and a good place to go is Jim Gillbet's web page Just went there to make sure I wasn't giving real bad info --- i didn't --- but he does say you can clean your tsuba in mild soap and water, rinse throughly, and dry throughly. There is more so..... Like your tsuba. am very interested in what is said about it re age, school, theme. etc. gonna look up stuff myself and see how close i get to the senior members. Doug e

I am new at this, but let me try: IMO -- DO NOT CLEAN THIS TSUBA. It looks fine to me, and I constantly read here, to leave it alone unless thereis lots orust, dirt, tar, etc. Maybe dust it, but i say it should left as is. I believe its shape is a variation of Nade Mokko Gata or a variation of Mokko Gata. The engraving is hard to make out but seems to be a vine of some sort. A picture of the other side might help. You are showing the omote side [front], but upside down and reversed. the kazuka hitsu ana [half moon shaped hole] should be on your left as you see the omote, and the narrow part of the nakago hitsu ana should be on top. That is all I got so far . As to age, school, etc., can't day now; I'll see if any books I have will help. Links on this Forum will help. Dr. Stein' link is a great place to start. Now the members who really know their stuff about tsuba can jump in and correct me so I can learn from my mistakes. Doug e

After 20 years of growing interest and increasing depth of study of Nihonto, I am natrually still [as I am sure most senior NMB view me] a novice newbie. As one of the 99.999%, the opinions and comments expressed in this thread, and most NMB threads I have read, have been VERY educational & interesting, and even entertaining to me. PLEASE don't stop! And I promise I will not post any pix or ask any questions about my very ordinary katana until I: 1. Can take decent photos [need better camera, I think, and re-read Darcy's article on photographing nihonto; and, 2. Have done MY own research and due dilagence. IMHO, the sword and its mounts are pretty, and can't wait to see more pix of the blade so can better understand the discussion. About the sword, that is! again. doug e lewis formerly Ashigaru

As the most novice novice NMB poster ..... bottom one is the real tsuba. the man's face is clearer, more natural art work so seems to show emotion. the gold inlay around him appears to be better made, with a more seamless arc; the upper one has a clear break in the circle and looks crude. I find the shape and patina of the bottom to be more pleasing. So IMHO I vote bottom as real doug

Thank you Stephen. Now I must see if I can find a copy of "Sword & Same" available somewhere. All Joly's stuff seems to be above my pay grade, but ya nevr know if ya don't look! Yes, Chris san, Exactly, for when i said "bundle sword". i had thought that was a modern casual term for "kazu uchi mono". as for "ichi kizu" .... can't find it in the several files and books i went thru ... so maybe i did make up the term "one flaw" = "ichi kizu". And another Japanese-English dictionary i have [sanseido's New Concise, pub. 1923, unpdated 1975] has as a 4th def. of kizu "a fault;a defect; a flaw; a blemish". So maybe it works in trying to describe the condition of my tired kazu uchi mono katana! Writing the kanji would help to be more precise, but i don't have a web site for that ... any suggestions? Raining now, here in the High desert!! So time for a Doug

Stephen, fine article! i would like to read the entire text that that came from so please post the title, author, etc. Love that sort of detail! Chris, I think I must have mis-recalled what a "bundle" sword that had a minor flaw, that shouldn't affect its performance in battle, was called. I thought I read somewhere "ichi kizu", the kizu just meaning small flaw. Now I can't find the reference. No doubt I am wrong again. My Japanese dictionary defines "kizu" as "a wound; injury; a cut". Since my katana has a small fukure yabure in the shinogiji several inches from the munemachi, I might have just made "ichi kizu" = "one flaw/wound" up. My sayashi friend thought it was revealed from too many polishes, but it is small and there may have even been an attempt to repair it -- umegane -- which was only partially successful. A tired old blade, and you have look hard in just the right light and angle to see her hamon, so not very pretty ---nicks on the ha, a few spots of inactive rust ---but no more polishes her. I'll stop now Doug

Greg, According an article i have at hand by S. Alexander Takeuchi, Ph.D. ("Dr. T") of the Dept. of Sociology at U. of North Alabama "...it was during the late Momoyama period [ca. 1573-1600] when specific ranges of blade lengths started becoming the official (legal) criteria to designate different types of swords into specific catagories such as katana, wakizashi, tanto, etc." During this period retrictions were made on who [status or class of people] could wear what type of sword. Only samurai were allowed to wear two swords. This was often ignored, because of varying definitions in the old laws, by chonin [commoners] and yakuza gangs in the early Edo period, after 1600 [or 1603 for some historians]. they would only carry one sword, but it would be long oo-wakzashi, which was nearly the same length of katana that they were prohibited to wear at all. the Tokugawa Shoguante could not let this situation continue. After all, the Shoguate since Tokugawa Ieaysu had regulated just about everything, even down to the color of the saya samurai were allowed to wear while in Edo castle. After 1640 they issued several orders concerning swords and who could wear what and when. "One of such orders was Dai-sho katana no Sumpou tohats futsumoh no Sei [The Order Regarding Dai-sho Katana and Hair Style] issued in July, Shoho 2 [1645]" the law specified the maximum blade length, measured from the ha-machi to the tip of the kissaki, for katana, wakazashi, etc. All of Dr. T's articles are full of well researched info and worth reading again and again (like i just did to respond to your question). Doug

seems almost from a different recent thread. yes, again Mr. Watson san, you cut to the meat of the matter. two threads summed up in one. maybe? at least you provide a hint of a reason why my ichi kizu katana survived.... it still cuts! doug

wow! this thread really covers some ground. this is what i get from it so far, and i am probably being too simplistic, but... so in the beginning a sword is a weapon, some better than others, and the best were the ones bought by those samurai who could afford the best from the best smith. the lower rank samurai were left with OK swords from the smith of the day; and the common non-samurai warrior with spears & what swords they were issued or scavenged from the battlefield. [especially prior to the Sengoku?] the best swords were cared for by the nobles and wealthy samurai who could afford them, appreciated them for their functional craftmanship and had the means to preserve them. which allows us to have them now. i do not think these samurai considered the fine swords they were preserving and handing down "art" in the same sense they considered a fine painting, sculpture, or poetry "art". And certainly not in the way we consider them Art. Fine examples of the craftsmanship and talent of the smith; and for some even embodiments of certain kami. so we only have, for the most part, the best --or even the best of the best. rarely do beat up, nicked and unimpressive swords like my lowly ichi kizu survive -- and for good reason. they served their function, then gone. recall the causal way swords in the early 1800's were casully destroyed in testing their ability to cut a kabuto! and these were some fine swords from the accounts i have read [thank you NBM for directing me to those articles] so we have a functional piece of craftmanship, turned into heirloom, morphing into modern notions of artistic sensibility. unless your want to take your Masamune to tamishigari class and see what it will do.. it is Art! and sometimes a sword is just a sword ... like as sometimes a cigar is just a cigar Doug

so very right on, Chris. the 1st katana I ever saw [in a parking lot of a pub in Pasadena under a steet light] the blade danced like powdered snow...just as I read a fine hamon in nioi would. The owner let me hold it [yes, he was an idiot for even bringing a sword out at night by a Pub; and a known idiot to them, as i was informed by my nihonto mentors/friends], it was in full koshirae. it seemed to come alive in my hand. ever, since, when questioned by friends or family about my attraction to nihonto, and Japanese art & culture in general, i usually come spout tortured rationalizations of history, culture, beauty, abstract Zen insight, etc. But it is mostly, if not all, a personal emotional attraction. Yu sareba Kado ta no inaba Oto zurete Ashi no maro ya no Aki kaze zo fuku In the evening The rice leaves in the garden Rustle in the autumn wind That blows through my reed hut. Minamoto no Tsunenobu purhaps the spirit of this samurai was in that sword. a little over the top, but i was warned that this hobby would make me a little crazy. doug

i am kind of late reading & comment to this thread [been moping about having to cancel my trip to SF Token Kai ]. i agree that all fittings, saya, papers, etc. should be kept with any sword -- Koto thur gendaito to shinsakuto, as noted above all are part of a sword's life history. and as noted, ya don't have to display all ... keep the WWII beat up saya in the closet, but keep it, and pass it on when the time comes to part with the sword. i have a sword, mumei .... thought to be a ichi kizu katana from ca. 1560 in the Uda school style, by a friend [a Pasadena sayaashi, well know to many NMB members]. my further amature investigation is on going. i got it naked, in a postal shipping box! the tsuba is in the soten style, probably early Meji according to the comments when i posted it on NMB. the menuki matched the theme of the tsuba ..... but along the way the kashira was lost! tho the fushi is not remarkable, but i thought i possible the kachira might have continued the theme of the tsuba and menuki, i will never know. all the koshirae i do have are displayed, menki still under ito, fushi and seppa all togeather with tsuba. the katana, of unknown provenance and age, is happy in non-custom made shiasaya [my friend amazingly had a shirsaya hilt that fit the mekugi ana perfectly, and another friend had a shirasaya bottom that fit the sword well enough to protect it, tho the habaki is not very tight in it so i must handle with great care]. the tired old katana, with its beautifull original copper habaki, is in a nice [tho not made for nihonto] bag and safe in a bottom drawer. sorry about the rant; the thread just got me going doug

in Dr. Buck's site he mentions that he no longer makes new sayas. he recommends Mike Virgadamo, who lives in Pasadena, CA -- he is listed in the phone book. i second his recommendation for three reasons: i have seen his work, and his carving methods personally; he has been doing it for 30 years; he is a personal friend and partly responsible for intensifying my interest in nihonto. give him a call. doug e

i also am a newbie, though i have been studying nihonto for many years, buying books, going to a sayashi friends house when he has a good sword for me to learn from (picking his brain when he is in the mood to share), and other than a katana i rescued, and which my sayashi friend thinks may be a tired bundle sword from ca. 1560 of the Uda school, it will not take another polish. i have not tried to purchase a sword. YET! i am following advise and saving to get something of good quality that i really like. this Token Kai in San Francisco will be my 1st show! IMHO start with Dr. Stein's web site -- read it all twice -- then get the books recommended starting with Connoisseur's Book of Japanese Swords. in it will be samples of mei by many smiths. it may show the difference in the mei on your sword and the real smith's mei. but as the vets on this site will tell you, the only way to learn is to hold one, then another, then another, in your hand. there are several sword clubs in Germany, i think good luck in your new hobby -- it is lots of fun, and work, but mostly fun doug e

this is being posted after the thread seemed closed, but while reading my just received 1882 translation by Basil Hall Chamberlain of the Kojiki [Records of Ancient Matters] i ran into a story i think is the origin of nezumi [mouse; rat] stories, and the reason for the zesumi on your tsuba putting out a fire.. from Vol.I, sect. XXIII ... "... when he [Deity Great-Name-Possessor, Oho-na-muji-no-kami one of several names for Deity Master-of-the-Great-Land, Oho-kuni-nushi-no-kami] had entered the moor, [impetuous-Male-Deity, Susa-no-wo at once set fire to the moor all around. .... knowing no place of exit, a mouse came and said; " The inside is hollow-hollow, the outside is narrow-narrow". Owing to its speaking thus, he [Deity Great-Name-Possessor] he trod on the place, whereupon he fell in and hid himself, during which time the fire burnt past." must be lots of stories built around this brave mouse. doug e

a pilot who lucked out and did not fly, maybe? doug e

thank you Donald, i thought it might be some old, or fake, kantai paper [is that correct term] do you know if it says anything of interest concerning tanto in question? doug e

is there any ID on what the paper at the end of the pix is represented to be? or translation? i did not see one doug e

IMO - it seems like it might be one of those expensive rose bush pruners. but not "kamikazi" dagger --- what ever that may be. did not know there were special tanto given to those brave, if foolish, kamikazi pilots. and i did not know that vets would stamp their war trophys in that way doug e

thank you Moriyama san, wish that site had english translations of their descriptions, or that i could read kanji yet [study is on-going] two questions, if i may: what does the kanji on the tsuba say -- story of mouse & fire? and, is there a folk tale, or legend that this refers to, or is it just a whimsey of the maker. yours gratefully, doug e

Yes, it is a rat with a ?drum? [nice tsuba, IMHO as a novice collector] from wikipedia: "Nezumi were one of the other races that walked Ningen-do after the Naga entered their slumber and before the fall of the Kami. The Nezumi had a vast empire, conquering the kingdom of the Ogres and occupying most of the area currently taken by the Shadowlands. Most of the Nezumi civilization was destroyed when Fu Leng fell from Tengoku." this fellow with the drum was obviously a character in the mythology. there was a person, a thief, in the 19th century [also great story], but i think this is one of the mythical Nezumi. look it up and follow all the blue highlighted words, the stories are great -- founding of clans, fall of Kami, saving of Yoritomo after his death in 1128 - the saving happens in 1170! remnants of Nezumi are said to still exist in a world next to ours, which can be accessed in dreams, and which Emperors, being devine, can see at will. just great stuff. magic swords, hero rats ...... much taking placce before the Rise of Man, some in Classical times, but some seem to be going on right now! now back to reading the Kojiki, which i just received. doug e.

Makes for nice light after shave, also. doug e