Peter Bleed

Wonderful discussion. Thank you Roger.I see this as a beat up "old" Japanese fitting, that we are finding re-newed reason to assess because it might, could, sort of ...bump up against this thing we call "Namban." Peter

Grey asks the right question, Charles. Where are you heading? You seem to be getting ready to ask for - and then get - at least preliminarily assessed blades. It is possible that you will come across unassessed swords that you will have to "figure out". For that you will need to ask and answer questions about signatures, dates, and fittings. A set of flash cards will help, and I think it is worth having both - dare I say it - Yumoto and Robinson. Peter

Gee, Ken, "looking at each other's blades, & jabbering" ... sound like a hobby to me. Heck, it sound wonderful. Peter

Well, gee. I have recently been thinking about whether or not I should re-boot with NBTHK. The JSSUS is history (and I deeply and sincerely appreciate the leadership that got it there). I'm also trying to think of what I would like/expect from a "sensei" and, frankly, I'm not coming up with much. Sorry, but I think NMB is what we have and ought to endorse. If the gunshow scene was still active, if I could occasionally be presented with a 'discovery' in need to assessment, who needs an organzation? I've got a library. . . and the NMB! Peter

I am interested in getting to know some sword collectors in China. Building access with China's sword collecting community (there MUST be one - or more likely, many) will have to be good for Japanese sword collectors. It also promises to be fun and informative. But how might that be achieved? There must be some interest in swords in China. And there must certainly be swords in China. Come out, come out, where ever your are! Does NMB have any Chinese members? Are there communities and organizations we might join? And I would be very interested in acquiring literature on Chinese weapons. Peter

Glen, Thanks very much for these images and interesting insights. I agree that my "tendril embellished guard" sure looks like something made in China - probably for Chinese use. Two factors about it strike me as non-Japanese. Obviously, the first of these is the square nakago-ana and lack of hitsu. (I bought that guard at a Tampa shows so I can't guarantee it was ever IN Japan). I have two reactions to our observations about the complex, undercut tendrils on this guard. First, I see them as a bit coarser than classically Japanese namban guards. And secondly, this fitting has a coarse, granular texture to the steel than I see on other (ie I assume "Japanese") namban tsuba. Clearly the big challenge - and my main uncertainty - is telling the differences between guards made In China that ended up in the Japanese market AND pieces made in Japan, for the Japanese market, but using Chinese styles. That difference matters to those of us interested in Namban fittings as historical reflections of the Age of Exploration. If it were a bit later in the day, I might want to consider how foreign ideas have blossomed in Japan by sipping on a wee dram of Japanese Scotch! Peter

Glen, Thanks very much for these comments and explanations. Understanding how, why, and when these guards arrived in Japan is our next challenge. Is there literature on this topic in China? If so, we need to get it - - - if only to look at the pictures! Again, thanks! P

Dale, and friends, this has been an interesting bit of conversation. I am wondering - and truly unsure - about how active sword barrers (samurai, I guess) were in adjusting their koashirae. We individual free/able/ and expected to switch out their guards? Could guys change their tsuba as we (used to) change ties or cuff links? Thank you all for an interesting - and edifying - thread! Peter

Friends, Please allow me to continue discussion of the margins of so-called "Namban tsuba". My basic inquiry is the degree to which pieces called "Namban" were: 1) "Japanese" creations made to look exotic, OR 2) Japanese modifications of imported pieces, OR 3) foreign creations that sort of involved Japanese aesthetics ... and ended up in Japan. Since we mainly see stuff that comes to us from Japan, finding unmodified foreign fittings is tough. I have sought out evidence that would support either 2 or 3, but finding unmodified Asian sword fittings is not easy. Here is a snapshot of a couple of non-Japanese guards that seem not adapted to use on Japanese blades. Do they look "Namban"? P

This topic has gotten rather bulky, but please allow me to add another gaijin face. This one is a pair on the margins of really nicely carved dish - red hair, button nose, and round eyes. Peter (While you are inspecting it, look at all those "VOC's" in the tendrils).

Thank you, thank you! Dale, you are a font. Indeed, we have seen that re-worked Juyo guard that featured a full-figured naked girl. Talk about outlandish stuff! And thank you for showing me that big-nosed profile hidden on the bilobed guards. GOOD EYE! This is a guard that presents another couple of gaijin images. It has a old NBTHK Green Paper and has been posted on the NBTHK-AB page.

How embarrassing. OMG Very sorry, I should have started with google and not taken the time of NMB. SORRY! Do you suppose I can bury it in the garden? P

No one else has offered me guidance about gaijin faces on Namban tsuba, so let me ask you to look at these two guards and four (!) bearded fellows. Namban ? - sure looks like that , notice one has a squared ana Gaijin? well, yes, round eyes and beards A type? I'd have to say "yes". similar design/construction. Reactions??? Peter

Here's a pic of the whole rig. Boy, it feels like I ought to be wearing a mask and gloves

UPS just dropped this off from a friend who said it was being returned to me! I truly do not recall ever owning it, Is this some manner of fantasy? Should I be as embarrassed as I feel? P

David, I was simply suggesting that it might NOT be treated as unsalvagable junk in Japan. It certainly would not be "confiscated" but I think it could be registered. A polish would be so expensive that it might not be "wise", but I expect that it would be possible. These things happened. Peter

Having let me explore the diversity of nakago-ana on Namban tsuba, I pray the help of the NMB community on another Namban issue. In addition to Oni faces, that are common on Namban guards, I think I’ve seen occasional presentations of individuals that look like foreigners, gai-jin. Has anyone else noticed this? Does it seem like a theme worth exploring? Peter

I vote with the side that sees this as a Meiji era re-work - - if not true and classic kyu-gunto mounts. And - to go a bit farther - if it has boshi, and the "tsuka" disappears, I bet it could legally go back to Japan. Peter

This thread has produced some interesting insights, worthy observations, and a couple of informative conversations. Thank you. Please allow me to attach this image of some of the various types of tsuba that are behind my initial inquiry. Peter

Dale, Thank you very much! Indeed, that is exactly the feature that I was asking about. I must also acknowledge that I was aware of Dr. Lessenden's work. Indeed, I served as the outside evaluator on this thesis committee in 2002. He viewed these as "altered nakago-hitsu"and tried hard to link them to VOC symbology. I certainly respect this work, but I am suspicious of that explanation. I am trying to frame my suspicions positively. I especially appreciate the copy of the Boxer study. Indeed, I have never seen it so I am looking forward to reading it this evening! Thank you Once again the NMB has worked! Peter

Colleagues, Can any one point me to a thoughtful treatment of Namban tsubas that have/had/or show a squared mid section of the nakago-ana? And what about those Chinese looking guards that present rectangular ana? Peter

Wow, what an interesting name! P

Thank you Piers and Brian. I had very little contact with guns while knocking about Japan, but I can certainly believe that folks are "careful" with firearms. But, I think that extra pieces must be available in Japan. I am quite sure that the extra tanegashima parts that were sold by Dixie Gun Works were made in Japan. The fact that those parts all sold out suggests that people DO need matchlock parts, and I have to wonder how many of those parts were sold back to Japan. Piers, please let me know if more odds and ends turn up. Peter

I write to request the help of this fine community. I am hoping that someone here can tell me how to find and acquire a HIBASAMI for a Japanese matchlock. I don’t count myself as a tanegashima collector, but these things happen. As the attached image shows, I have this shootin’ iron that has lost its wick-holder. I just have to assume that there is a source for such things somewhere in Japan. Please, offer me advice - - or help. I am sure that I can manage adjusting a “generic” replacement…. Where to Japanese gun-slicks get their parts?

This community regularly addresses how one begins collecting Japanese swords - - where and how to get swords, who to trust, and the etiquette to follow. But now I feel myself on the other side of these discussions. I am wondering how one STOPS collecting swords. My hobby involved 1) searching for “Japanese swords” (a broadly define category). That activity, led to 2) research. There was also a surprising amount of 3) social involvement – even friendships. And, of course, I have to mention that 4) I have a bunch of “swords.” I loved all four of those steps, but the reality of life is that all those activities have changed. “Swords” are not to be discovered as they once were, so I rarely have research questions to investigate. My social horizons are much smaller than they once were. And golly, a lot of my old friends are also old - - or dead. Of course, I still have some “swords” but by themselves, do they make me a “collector?” When and how does a fellow stop collecting? Peter