Alex A

Its just swords Rayhan, more to life than getting worked up over things you cant change. You have to accept that we are all different. To be honest, was more on your wavelength, from memory, but you are driving me the opposite way. You are having the opposite effect. There is a lesson to be learned. People need to find their own way, with a little bit of a nudge, not a kick up the ass.

I missed this post Colin, very much agree and that was my thoughts. Folks are attracted to Horimono, its clearly better than i thought.

I think some folks have lost touch with reality, hence head in the clouds. If id have been at an arms fair and seen the blade in hand and thought there was a chance of it taking a polish, id have been straight to the bank for what was paid. I cannot judge that blade from those images, whether it would polish. I dont know what school the blade is. I mentioned Dotanuki, partly because ive seen a lot of their swords with some rough hada, loose grain whatever. We dont know what it is. In the UK, you cannot buy a genuine UNPOLISHED Antique "Samurai Katana" for less than £2000, seriously. I think I'm being optimistic with that price. Do the maths. If the blade could polish, even with some issues it would still demand reasonable money here. I dont actually think the dragon horimono is that bad, seen a lot worse. With the bo-hi and in polish i think it would find a new home. Also Rahan, no, its not ripping off unsuspecting newbies, thats how much swords cost here, even low end swords, take a look. Check out the lanes armoury here and their prices, they definitely don't send their swords to Japan for top notch polish. Its ignorant comparing what goes into preparation for those blades compared your average humble sword here. I am always reluctant to use the term "junk". Any antique sword in the form it should be in is not junk. Junk for me is the broken sword, the stuff we see here over the years that have been reshaped far beyond its original form, you know what i mean. No good can come of forcing ones opinion on others, you just push folks away and piss them off at the same time. If Rayhan had been more tactful then perhaps i wouldn't be here wasting my time again I guess it would be easy to wind anyone up in this game over many swords, including some of their Juyo purchases. Colin had it right in his last post and put it better than i have. For me, this blade was in with a fighting chance of being something that someone would be happy to own and thats all there was to it. Cleaned up saya, a real antique Samurai sword with a chance of nailing the school. The wiser people here that specifically concentrate on high end swords tend to stay out of such topics and i kind of respect that. An analogy could be someone always flying business class then suddenly having to jump in a Congo airways Cessna and boring all the other passengers to death with complaining, like a spoilt brat. Also one more thing. Most of us here know what good swords are, its pretty condescending to keep having to listen to the same old burb. Its nothing new and we have heard it all before. Change the record.

Brano, im not doing a kantei on what is available and didnt mean for it to sound like ive come to any conclusions. My point was and always has been that this blade needs more scrutiny than folks pulling up tape measures and stuff. This site is actually for the preservation of ALL Japanese swords, i will do what i can to support that. Only Joking here Brian, but was surprised at the love emoji at the remark above when its your site (meant as a laugh) Im in the camp that if you dont know for sure, then you dont know for sure. Amazed how folks can eliminate a sword so rashly. Online Kantei by horimono and a few other bits and bobs The experts have spoken, God help us.

Really cant be assed getting back into this but a bit taken back by that. Usually, would agree. Though this for me is not a clear cut case, the sword is out of polish. Personally, i cant dismiss something as junk when i don't know what it is. Not judging a sword on Horimono that appear to be done later. For all we know it could be a shortened Dotanuki or similar school, should it go in the trash?. Check the prices stuff like that sells for now. As far as i can tell, no one has been PRAISED or promised the world. Thats all i want to add.

Its not like its going to break in half but its really undesirable, probably fatal to your wallet only

That would put me off. Its not unusual to see flaws, open grain whatever in nakago, but that looks a step too far. Re-sale could be an issue.

You just confirm my thoughts. I dont see anything you highlight where i can say yay or nay as to whether it can be polished For two reasons, im looking at images and im not a polisher with it in hand. As said previously, you could try doing a search. Seen one or two swords over the years that look unsalvageable but ended up polished ok. Its an antique and as much as you think its junk, i always look at them with some respect and wonder what is best for the sword, that's not my decision here. You do realise some folks would happily own the sword, as is. Now i really am done with this thread. Wish Eric the best with with it.

Why would i pay to have someone else's sword polished, such a stupid statement! This is nonsense, you are comparing this sword with Juyo swords? Ive had enough of your elitist **** now Rayhan, this is all ridiculous, troll like egotistical BS As said a number of times now, IM NOT JUDGING AN OUT OF POLISH BLADE from PICTURES and for God knows how many times said it needs to be seen in hand to confirm whether it deserves a polish or not. I said that because like a few others, think it deserves a bit more scrutiny than what we can give it here. And something you don't know, i presume. I know how much Eric paid for this sword, very little in fact and "IF" a polisher says its worth restoring and "IF" he can get it done for a reasonable price then i actually feel he could make a profit when its time to sell. Though many "IFS"!!!. At the price he paid most here would have bought it. Sure if he did NOTHING he could make a profit. Folks are always interested in horimono, even if not executed to an high standard. For many they add interest though its not for everyone. Nakago could be re-patinated, Shirasaya repaired/cleaned up. Hes not a child, so stop treating him like one. Now ive had enough of dealing with your over inflated ego to last me a lifetime, you need to get your head out of the clouds. Feels like an exercise in "blowing ones own trumpet", so to speak. As said, really impressed at how you judge out of polished blades from poor images, amazing. The END.

I was just about to state that maybe it wasn't used so much on Japanese swords due to being impractical, as in maybe falling apart due to temperatures and humidity in places around East/South East Asia. Though then thought about holsters and stuff in Europe with it throwing bucket loads down. I'm clueless but perhaps there is some info somewhere. Though, would bet it has caused confusion over the years and some genuine items been disregarded

I want an NMB mug

Thanks Bruce, reading through this did get me wondering. Thought it was going to be one of those ask a stupid question moments and turn out that it was very common. How common it was for Japanese swords, maybe interesting to find out. Perhaps there are owners of swords that think they have a genuine leather cover when in fact, not.

Reading through this, surprised nothing has been mentioned about artificial leather? I know in WW2, artificial leather was used for holsters due to shortages, referred to as ersatz leather. Used to have a ww2 pistol in such an holster. Was this never used for Japanese swords?

Don't stop you coming back for more! haha

Its paypal linked to a credit card, no issues Dee, you need thicker Skin, you get wound up too easily. It has been talked about before, but maybe there could be a an area for top notch sword talk? Only say that because we see a lot of low to mid end blades come through the forum and it seems to set some folks off. Though to be honest, if i were Brian, i couldn't be assed trying to separate it.

Maybe call it $5.30 to cover those Papal fees, lets face it, that's peanuts for what's available here, Really am surprised more people don't support the forum, it costs nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Rayhan, you have not absorbed what i said and put one and one together and come up with ten. We all collect on different levels, i can see where this is heading so will get out. From the start, this was just another opportunity for you. Its getting really boring. Its not your sword, or mine, its up to the owner. Your the only person i know that can judge an out of polish blade from images, enough said.

Maybe its my eyesight, dunno. Though just looked over this Bo-hi again, in these not so good pictures im struggling to see anything that suggests the bo-hi was done by a cowboy, so to speak. The geometry of the blade may have changed due to polish, the geometry of the bo-hi may have changed due to polishing, as in a polisher may have had to have polished out rust spots or whatever, we don't know. Ive had a blade turn up with rust spots in the bo-hi, so i guess its not that unusual. Though i do know polishers don't like over polishing in bo-hi. As said, there are many good swords with questionable engraving. If the owner didn't pay too much for the blade and a polisher can see it and if so polish it for a reasonable price, then its his business. We used to have a good polisher in the UK that would polish a blade for £22 an inch. Do the maths. If the polisher says the sword is past it, then that's how it is. Some swords after polish do show openings and loose grain, especially certain schools during the Sengoku. Ironically, sold such a sword with some open grain to Guido, didn't bother me or him, the school at the time made real big heavy swords and open grain etc wasn't unusual. Its best to air on the side of caution, as pointed out earlier in this thread, say what you see but let people make their own minds up. Think maybe folks past mistakes haunt them.

One thing that springs to mind, if not already mentioned. Cant remember if there was an option to pay monthly rather than every six months? Some folks likes paying monthly, for various reasons.

With what's available, Its hard to be specific. Though would be surprised if it was Shinshinto.

Its large!. Don't think ive ever seen one made from brass. Like it.

That's up to the owner to decide Rayhan. He now has many opinions.

Rayhan. I suggested that the sword gets shown to a polisher who will see it in hand and give his thoughts, before money is spent. Learned a long time ago as to shut up on what can and cant be sorted out, as im not a polisher and we are looking at pictures. Seen what appeared unsalvageable come up ok. Im not suggesting this swords gets shipped to Japan for a top notch polish. The nakago has been messed with, cleaned. Ok, so its not the perfect example of suriage and is not in amazing condition, that's something the owner needs to consider. If the bohi was added much later, i would not of assumed it would run the full length of the blade and down and off the nakago. I feel it would have been done not so long after it was made. The bo-hi in the nakago shows some age, wear and patina that has not been cleaned. Im not judging an out of polish sword on the quality of the bohi, from PICTURES. As mentioned, pictures are misleading. Also, seen many real good swords with Bo-hi and horimono that have not been done so well. Ian, we are not giving people false hope. He has been given advice to speak with someone with more knowledge that can assess it, in hand.

Think maybe your looking too much into it Ray. No one thinks they are an expert. You calling everyone experts in a sarcastic way actually makes it appear like your up for title of "expert" My advice was see a polisher and see what he thinks. 6.5 mm doesn't seen a total no go, but would have speak to them. Will tell you that judging a swords sori from images can be veery misleading. The type of suriage is "keicho" suriage and yes, good swords have been chopped that way. Tenshō-suriage and Keichō-suriage | Markus Sesko To me the sword has a Momoyama feel with the width at the kissaki appearing quite hefty, longer kissaki. Im not interested in the horimono, apart from the bohi. Do i necessarily think its a diamond in the rough, no, hence why i suggested it go to someone in hand. It don't make sense to carve full length Bo-hi on crappy swords, it was expensive. Punched ana can appear drilled if done well. This isn't a knowledge competition, its folks trying to help folks the best they can. No one likes sticking their head out and being wrong, but ive learned to not give a **** as thats how i learn.

Hi Robert, All i could say is that it appears to be a shortened sword and it could be late Muromachi Mino. What makes you state late Muromachi Mino?