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Everything posted by Rivkin
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There is a visible lens/view distortion (by looking at the nakago), but generally it is either the end of Muromachi-Tensho, or Kambun shinto. The writing where you place first kanji 2 inches up and then mash the remaining two on top of each other, the strokes of uneven depth indicate the person writing this most likely was not a professional. Same goes for placement - if you do bold, wide, deep lines - sign in the center, not at the edge. Tenten on vertical lines in a condensed kanji... Its painful to look at, but a great example of a signature that violates every single principle of calligraphy and how signature style elements should work together. This was not done by a smith. So we have a run of the mill late Muromachi to Kambujn waki with a bad signature.
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Listening to the same people telling the same war stories, sometimes things evolve rather drastically after half a year. Less mud and s...t, more burning tanks and blazing machine guns. Location shifts from no-one-remembers-where to a popular spot. The enemy multiplies and closes in for hand to hand combat. I guess Mr. Sword somehow got involved in the process or maybe a son found it in his father's things and gave it to a friend with a story attached. I think the box is cool though.
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These are shinto wakis with questionable signatures. 600$ is well, ok. Though there is not much to learn or see here. 1800$ on the other hand is a solid budget. At a show this buys a decent mumei Muromachi Bizen katana with papers, condition issues and plenty to see and appreciate.
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Personally nothing strikes me here as good/outstanding, mei cut is a bit unusual, shinto pieces, though its just a first impression. Unfortunately, the closest sword show is quite a few months away... I would say look at aoi art and a few other beginner friends sites and see if there is something you like. Fishing among out-of-polish blades is a fun sport but not for beginners.
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Tsuba are a good way to invite people. Otherwise my collection is quite small. collected a few tsuba, me likes Person visits - he studies good
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This looks like the end of Edo period work and frankly its one notch below the Goto mainline. Does it have papers? How does the signature look like? Yes, the name is the late one, but I would question the attribution first, i.e. better photographs are needed. Saya and tsuka are probably post-WW2.
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Thoughts on these types of listings
Rivkin replied to klee's topic in General Nihonto Related Discussion
Near dead Naminohira, no reason to polish (especially with a thin boshi) and despite koshi-zori possibly from 1500s rather than 1400s. -
Unfortunately I don't know this case exactly (i.e. handwritten+photograph, I've seen only handwritten+possibly rubbing), but from the past 40 years I've seen papers by upper class polishers whose names are not recognized in the west, as well as (less often) a few dealers or collectors. Frankly, unless its upper grade name was involved, most I've seen were honest and possible to accept opinions. From 1890-1940 there are many sword shop papers. They tend to be ignorant.
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#1 shinto. Hizen Masahiro made those, many other people did. #2 very crisp and well defined o-maru boshi? Generally rare on later blades, Muromachi+. There is some taper involved. This is an old blade that was greatly cut down. Because of the unusual boshi and probably tight (invisible) jigane with suguha, guess Enju or Awataguchi. #3 Late Nanbokucho naginata, cut down. Attempting to guess without seeing the jigane or frankly anything except barely something outlining the hamon - Bizen or Yamato Shizu. #4 Circa 1640 shinto. In out-of-polish state I would pursue #2 and possibly #3. Does anything here has "great sugata"? Sorry - Not in my book. Some are good blades still. #2 probably used to have a good shape, but now it is 20% of the appeal it had as ubu.
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I find many ubu kodachi to have exceptional sugata. Miniaturized mid Kamakura tachi where the slightest deviation would stand out and therefore distortion free shape is a perfection. Unfortunately a typical moved hamachi and squared nakago is more than enough to remove the harmony and produce a blade which is ugly shaped... even though there are still kantei features even sugata wise which suggest its kodachi and not a waki. For ubu piece it is often just simple. For example, in kodachi the curvature continues at the nakago's mune side. In a waki there is usually none, even if there is some above the nakago. Otherwise I think a considerable portion of the confusion here comes from NBTHK stating "its Kamakura shape" versus "its a great sugata". Though obviously I never seen the actual papers I don't feel the second option is the actual case. I don't think any of Kamakura period blades retains a great portion of its "shape aesthetic" in o-suriage. It can still be attractive, but not nearly as much as ubu. It can still be kantei-ed by kissaki alone, yet it remains butchered, in the harshest cases to the point it becomes a straight and flimsy stick affixed to a bizarre curved foundation.
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I think as a first blade to purchase, its a good choice. But there are couple of things I don't like about it. For example, "masame" does not change much as it crosses from hamon's area towards the ji and back. While it states in the description as sunagashi and kinsuji, you get this effect when hamon is not tempered into hard nie. So this blade is bright, but with Dotanuki better blades always show a lot of nie activity which is very much subdued here. Its both atypical and not the best.
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This is an interesting blade. It does tick many boxes and its easy to study, but its also not a typical Dotanuki in many ways.
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In Japan quite a few dojo use "antique" swords since they can't easily import modern iai blades. But anything iaido suitable means the blade is nearly dead in every artistic aspect. Bungo: honestly very solid school that produced masterpieces during Tensho period and very solid work around 1650. Victim of NBTHK decision to use it to dump every single blade it does not care about or does not understand into this category, in addition to good work which is appraised Bungo by merit. Dotanuki will be shorter, much more massive and by default average to high end quality in artistry. They feel very different in hand compared to other blades, they are excellent cutters and do not chip very easily despite nie hardening. 30 inch Dotanuki the blade alone will go probably above 1.2kg, so they are usually in 26-27 inch range. Bungo - the best thing to go for suguha with tight itame, which can be either Rai or Aoe (even better) copy by Bungo. I have no idea how well they cut (these are higher end artistic blades which are actually quite rare).
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It says in the description specifically: - its a iaido blade (there is absolutely nothing to see in it) - bungoed by NBTHK, meaning they can't see ... either - iaido (i.e. new, cheap but sturdy) koshirae.
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I always found the beautiful sugata/root of all nihonto aesthetic discussion to be a bit provocative. The moment it starts there is lingering fear, you don't nod on time you come out as a fool who can't see a thing... And you look. And you look. And instead of the hidden beauty what lies in front of you is still something that has been cut off, overpolished and violated to such an extent Bungo Takada himself wrote to NBTHK swearing he did NOT make it. There are blades which have such a graceful sugata which is noticeble all by itself: those by Chogi, unusual items like Kamakura kodachi, where the shape is often both profound and distinctively well done compared to a plain Muromachi waki, etc.. Frankly with these four I am a fool who does not see a single A+ sugata. Critical kissaki theory suggests one needs to focus on #4 since its tip proportions and tapering towards it looks no later than mid Kamakura, carefully finished suriage suggests it was already owned by someone with more than half the brain towards the latter days of Muromachi, hi pressed all the way into ko-shinogi confirms the age and the fact that hi looks deep/consistently wide all across the blade despite otherwise clear polishing distortions in sugata suggests people who polished it at least from 1500 forward had more than a general idea of what they are doing. This is a kind of blade one first buys than studies when fishing at sword shows, hoping one day it makes TJ. I should hedge all the above and below statements since its a crazy guess without knowing the actual dimensions (maybe these are all waki), but that's how it feels to me. Often one has to make buying decision based on such feelings. #3. All sexy kids with o-kissaki are supposed to have less taper, more uniform curvature and kissaki curvature should be more natural. I almost want to vote for Kambun shinto, but B&W pictures always make me suspect its Chogi which has been a bit traumatized by a polisher. Why would someone photograph o suriage Kambun in B&W? Plus its a bit more graceful than Kambun shape, less "sticky". If I were to encounter this blade with zero polish I would check the kasane. If its thin and the blade swings well, maybe it has potential. #2 is most likely a Japanese sword. Can't tell anything more. #1. Full fukura is considered an auspicious sign by some who believe such blades were tempered in the blood of virgins and exemplify ko-ikubi forms in their healthy state (???). On practice its usually cursed by witches, and after polishing comes out laughing as mid Muromachi Bizen blade. If this was out of polish I would not prioritize the restoration based on this picture alone.
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Its not a hard-hard wood. A solid bump leaves a trace.
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Modern NBTHK Papered?
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Long wakizashi with an o-kissaki is basically Tensho or later. The signature is placed along the edge, non-callygraphic, which suggests koto, which means likely Tensho. The style is sort of meh-average of the period, can be Mino, can be something else, especially since we don't see jigane above the shinogi. Bi is likely Bizen as was stated... possibly ok. Nothing seen disproves it with certainty.
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A Question about Sword Attribution
Rivkin replied to drac2k's topic in General Nihonto Related Discussion
It does save a lot of time though. Probably the feeling is its not worth to consider a more detailed analysis which for the period will not be precise anyway. NTHK NPO issues many Kaga judgements for the same rough period. This being said, there has been many weird things with the shinsa in the post-Covid timeline. At the show I learned a blade papered as Bungo Yukihira by NTHK was given Muromachi Naminohira judgement by NBTHK. Personally it looks like neither, though I hope my memory is valid enough to serve as a reference. There was none of typical Yukihira specific features like the start of the hamon etc., but it did look early (ko kissaki, narrow hamon), had a sense of rustic Kyushu (darker jigane with utsuri, somewhat coarse masame), but did not have a typical wave strong single masame line of Naminohira and nioi-guchi though tired in places was I think better defined. It looked like a blade one would not be able to put in a single bin with 100% certainty - yes can be early and Kyushu, but not a match for Jitsua or Naminohira... Though Jitsua would make some sense, but going all the way to the famous Bungo Yukihira basically shocked the show attenders. I think that NBTHK is becoming more and more conservative (i.e. Muromachi-oriented), but at the same time they are producing less eyebrows rising judgements. Its interesting that as a result the collectors community now more seriously considers alternative judgements or asking different people for opinions. "Papered to X but the judgement is weak" is often heard. -
A Question about Sword Attribution
Rivkin replied to drac2k's topic in General Nihonto Related Discussion
Unfortunately I estimate about 25% of mumei blades at this shinsa were papered to Echizen Seki. Its basically says "late Muromachi to Kambun, we don't care about the details". -
Bad pictures, but I don't think its per se "real" utsuri. Hitatsura, sometimes it creates a somewhat blank, mirror-like yet very dark jigane. Especially on later than late Muromachi pieces, as probably here.
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Mixed feelings. NEGATIVES: Once or twice I bought from him (her? never met in person) an item which had old papers, was described as Kamakura major name with an explicit statement in Japanese its guaranteed to paper. The seller confirmed during the transaction that the item is great, Kamakura, and will paper. Turned out "guaranteed to paper" means it will get Hozon to something-anything. Another time it turned out the torokusho was from a completely different blade, which is btw not at all uncommon in Japan since it becomes an issue only when exporting. He is one of the guys who tries to haggle aggressively but when you respond in kind he might get (a little) offended. Lots of dealer speak in descriptions. Everything is dated as early as it very theoretically can be. Some items are clickbait. The blade owned by another person, but it appears in the sales section to attract interest. POSITIVES: He has very good eye, gets from time to time very pretty blades for not a lot of money, a very good photographer who can do really well with old Bizen blades (but! they will look prettier in photos than in real life). Overall, he gets consignments from good old Bizen collectors in Japan. Finally, at least couple of times I was a real .... to him, or better to say my English statements were nuanced enough they could have been (and were) interpreted as essentially taking him for a ride on a significant blade... and we kept doing business afterwords and he did put quite some effort the deals went through ok. All in all, this is a good seller, but NOT for beginners. You have to 100% know what you want.
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Is this hamon due to the polish, or the forging?
Rivkin replied to Gerry's topic in General Nihonto Related Discussion
Its a modern, shinshinto or later blade - very long, high contrast lines which are however pure nioi. This being the case, the blade reacts well to acid, but at the same time even normal polish can look acid etched. I think the polish here is ok, its mostly the blade which contributes.
