dwmc

I would say the sword on the left is more "ordinary" size Shin gunto length where as the one on the right is HUGE. The sword on the right has at least 20 twist in the tsuka ito when a typical standard Shin gunto has perhaps 14 ? (twist per side) Dave M.

I'll always remember an older gentleman at the table just outside the entry door to the San Francisco sword show. I was holding a wakizashi I had brought to the show as there was a Shinsa team visiting that year. The older gentleman questioned me about the sword and I rather apologetically said " it's only a mumei wakizashi." He smiled and replied " ahh yes, maybe mumei, but much better than Gimei ! " Dave M.

David, I think Geraint in the Nihonto section could not have commented on your Grandfathers sword any better. Leave the sword alone albeit a little light oil on the blade. Too me your sword says more than the most pristine Nagamitsu in a upgrade Rinji Seishiki koshirae. It shows the misery of heat, moisture, humidity, mud, malaria, Dengue fever, abject suffering on all sides of the campaign your Grandfather indured. Something he brought home as a memory of those he fought along side, and in honor of those who died. There are those who admire nothing more than the monetary value of Nihonto, a pristine sword, flawless with a flamboyant hamon and hada, which is fine. As for me however, your sword is what WWll Japanese swords truly represents...treasure it as your families history, and for all of those who fought and died in the New Guinea Campaign. Dave M.

I'm almost to the point of giving up commenting on these type of swords. It seems they were produced just to make Japanese military sword enthusiast wonder what exactly in the hell is this... My first reaction is the feeling of something is just not right here. That nakago looks absolutely terrible, the kabuto gane and fuchi are odd looking, not to mention the tsuba. ( Bruce said he thought Neil~IJASWORDS~ has a simular tsuba ) Would like to see a photo if possible? Tsuba shows signs of age also... Then on the other hand, the sword sugata doesn't look too terribly bad, the tsuka ito is tied properly, same' and menuki appear right, the leather on the saya is aged, the seam stitching is separating , beginning to see possible verdigris near ashi, koiguchi looks old and losing paint . As John has suggested it is a reproduction, but I would have to ask, were they ( Chinese ) or whom ever producing reproductions back as far as this sword appears to be?

As Adam has mentioned, these are only opinions at best. Even with a Shinsa team, it is a very well informed opinion, yet about the best we can hope for. Many times we have an opinion of what we hope, or what we want the sword to be and seek out those who support our conclusion. With all due respect others, I would still put my money on Shinshinto, the sword just appears too healthy for Koto, I don't see black nakago patina, the yasurime appears a bit too crisp, the mekugi ana are drilled, one rather poorly. It has obviously been polished a least once. Here is a comparison of a Kanbun era nakago . However, still not conclusive evidence. Either way, a beautiful sword and shirasaya. Dave M.

Beautiful sword...Shinshinto era fukko-to! Dave M.

Dave M.

There's no doubt the sword was assembled by force. I'm still somewhat curious of the time frame and place the sword was acquired. There had to have been literally mounds of sword fittings available post war. I would assume swords scheduled for the furnace were not tossed in fully assembled and the miss matched "put together swords" that show up occasionally are in part a result of these loose fittings. I can't imagine however, how a post warJapanese civilian would risk having possession of any type of blade to assemble fittings for souvenirs. But who knows, still a part Japanese wwll history in my opinion also... Just a thought, Dave M.

Agree, that shark skin is nice Bruce! Dave M.

Troy, First, I would advise you to gather as much information from your mom, cousin's, uncle's, as to the most exact explanation of sword origin as possible. ( If you haven't already.) Often when you begin getting to the bottom of the story , it sometimes has a tendency to change. Secondly, You have somewhat of an anomaly...A Shin-gunto tsuka, upgrade sarute, shark skin same', civilian fuchi , tsuba and saya, an older two piece habaki. The nakago has been severely altered, the blade itself appears sanded ( dull appearance, lines are rounded.) I'll go out on a limb and say it "could be" an older, yet severely abused blade. Hard to tell ! As Bruce suggested earlier, a look beneath the habaki could help. Google "Japanese Sword Guide" for term definitions . Dave M.

Well, all good points about paint origin. One thing I hope we all can agree on though , the tsuba wasn't painted yesterday, it looks very much like it could have been painted 75 yrs. ago. Too me, it just appears so much like the paint type and wear on my Type 32. This is simply one of those situation which is the fun and yet frustration of the Japanese sword collecting. The inability (sometimes) to be 100% sure... Dave M.

Dave, I would say there is a high probability it is war time paint. Below is a Kai gunto with black paint as per late war regulation. The other is a Type 32 Otsu also painted black. I'm fairly sure both are war and pre-war paint. I've seen many type 32 painted black. Black paint seemed fairly common war and pre-war. However, I think it was Shamsy (Steve) that once said "the only certainty is uncertainty." Dave M.

Whoa Baldi...Fifteen grand...Got to hand it to you, 800 miles in a Nissan Frontier, steering wheel in one hand, a bottle of Geritol in the other, pocket full of Alibaba cash to boot. Yee Haw... My guess is you paid less than $2000 for the sword and more power to you if so. We all hope find to such a bargain. Also, for creating a bit of a controversy drawing attention to the sword. Certainly you can understand, ( Which I'm quite sure you do) members questioning the legitimacy of the sword. Shin-gunto koshirae, rather mediocre tsuba and seppa, crude Kikusui mon, and not that impressive tsuka from what I can see. Never the less, the very best luck with your find and "No" I won't take your $5,000 bet !! Good luck, Dave M.

If you haven't read the full thread in Steve M.'s post, click on " By pcfarrar, July 31, 2008 " it's quite interesting , the mei was even a mystery back then. As often with Japanese swords there are differing opinions, Chris Bowen seemed to believe the Yanagawa Yukitaro swords were most likely non-traditional made blades, where as Mr.Trotter states he knew of one which was good quality Gendaito. Both are probably correct... I'm not sure whether the rather unique Swordsmith will increase the value greatly, but I suspect it very well could. Possibly provide a few of your best quality pictures of the blade itself, Kissaki, Hamon, Hada, etc. for those members experienced in evaluating quality and condition. At some point, should ever locate a matching silver plated tsuba and appropriate seppa, the sword would be complete and look great. Dave M.

Your sword has the "potential" of being quite valuable judging from special order fittings and upgraded Tsuka. However, really need to see pictures of sword, particularly the nakago ( part beneath handle.) Dave M.

I'm also interested in hearing how a crate/box of wwll Japanese Bringbacks remains sealed for 75 years. That has to be an incredible story within itself. Looking forward to more pictures and further information! Dave M.

I've always found you to be very accurate Hamfish. Yes , I have the older version of F&G. Dave M. Why is it I never seem to notice my miss spelling until after I press send and edit has expired...(petal-pedal.)

Excellent...Thanks Bruce ! Dave M.

This is either a Army parade or Police saber. I've always read police swords were the ones with a five pedal sakura blossom, where as the army was a blossom of ten the pedal type. If I'm not mistaken, Fuller and Gregory ( Military Swords of Japan) , are showing the one in the photo's below as army. Would anyone happen to know exactly which the sword is ? Thanks in advance, Dave M.

Thanks Bruce, Greg and all that enjoyed what I thought would be somewhat of and interesting story. I'm sure there are many others out there with father's and grandfather's with similar interesting tales. I thought I would provide a couple of photos of at least two of the swords mentioned. The Shin Shinto wakizashi is the one which was once in a village along the Ishikari river some 75 yrs ago. The Shin gunto is the Amahide (Purchased at auction) which is in appearance practically identical to the Amahide which was also once in a village along the Ishikari... Dave M.

I realize at times I may sound like an elementary school boy with "My father this, My Dad that." However, I'm now to the age I don't concern myself much with what the perception may be, and enjoy many board members sharing their families stories during wwll. I often regret not asking my father more about the details of his wwll military service. It seems as though now, I understand he was way ahead of me as exactly how he was going to address the questions of a young son regarding what he experienced. He mentioned he was in the Philippines, but very little, mostly what I recall of his time in Luzon was over hearing him talking with other Vets. Some of it was quite disturbing. I would also hear him talking about staging in Okinawa, but mostly about the 11th airborne occupation of Japan, and performing guard duty for General MacArthur at the New Grand Hotel in Yokohama. His unit was camped in the Yamashita park, in front of the New Grand Hotel during guard duty. He was also very proud of an exhibition jump he performed with two other paratroopers out of a small aircraft, I believe at Atsugi air field near Yokohama. He traveled to Honshu, then on to Hokkaido where the Amahide sword story begins. By then he had made Sgt. rank and was either in charge, or at least part of a weapons collection mission which entailed several days up the Ishikari river.( I read somewhere there were several thousand swords collected on the island of Hokkaido, which was actually quite surprising to me for some reason.) My understanding was there were at least several hundred swords collected during the Ishikari mission, and the mission participants were given permission to choose a few for Bring backs. Dad was somehow able to acquire, I think, five or more, some of which he gave to relatives before I was born, and have never seen them to this day. One particular sword he told me about in Japan was what I now know was in Buke Zukuri mounts, black Ito and saya, he somehow managed to break the saya , bend the sword, and simply cast it into a pile. Damn, I would love to have seen that one... Long before the internet, my father handed me a bring back wakizashi and Shin gunto and ask me to research them. The Shin gunto, I eventually managed to translate as " No Shu Seki Ju Minamoto Amahide Kitau kore." The Wakizashi papered as a Shin Shinto Jumyo. My younger brother ended up through a flip of a coin with the Amahide, me the wakizashi,of course, I had always wanted the gunto... I moved to Idaho a few years ago, and have always attended estate sales. At one particular sale there were two Shin gunto swords of which I bid and won both.The day before the auction we were able to view the items, the tsuka on one of the swords was going to take a little work to remove, and the owner was understandably reluctant.Oddly, the next day, the tsuka was able to be removed, and I was able to briefly see kanji, but for some reason the characters did not appear familiar to me. After winning the bid and getting home, I once again removed the tsuka and doubled checked the kanji. To my total amazement, it read " No Shu Seki Ju Ichimonji Minamoto Amahide Kitau kore ." Seriously...What are the odds!!! Dave M.

A interesting point Bruce ! When my father showed me his "Bring backs" , I may have been four or five years old. I recall the occasion as if it were yesterday, he explained to me what they were, and how he had acquired them. I also recall having the feeling he was only remembering a time and place in his life. Even though he was a 11th airborne paratrooper having gone through the Philippines, Okinawa, and on to Japan, and surely witnessed some horrific situations , I don't ever remember him expressing abject hatred. However, I always suspected extreme feelings were always there but were somehow suppressed. I guess how each Vet handled post war feelings varied greatly. As far as his swords, they remained in the closet, not to be touched ( And trust me, were not), only when he agreed to do so... Dave M.

I agree David, I used the term "Legendary" more in reference to todays frame of mind as opposed to then. Dave M.

To bring home a legendary Japanese sword had to have been one of the top priorities of returning allied troops. It must have been very disappointing to miss out on winning a raffle. ( Making it back alive was obviously the first priority ) I think the chances of returning home with a sword had a great deal to do with availability, and your location. My father for instance, was involved with weapons collection in northern Japan, and handled hundreds of swords. Plenty to choose from, I occasionally think had they had just a little sword evaluation knowledge what they may have made it home with. Dave M.

Dave M.