kissakai

The museum have around 60 Namban tsuba (non signed) and I have selected 7 samples Just showing the best side I know a couple really need some TLC but that life Namban is not everyone’s favourite school It was never a favourite school of mine until I bought two Namban tsuba and thought they were better in hand than I had thought they would be. So not converted but pleasantly surprised and there are two or three here I’d like to own I know lately there has been a great deal of research into Namban tsuba. These tsuba cover quite an important area so can not be overlooked. If any NMB members have examples of really good Namban tsuba then please share especially if any are signed As I said before I not looking for help/advice for these tsuba ( that will be in my next post ) but I’d be interested to know if there are any gems here Grev UK

Hi All As I’ve only tended to add posts for my own information I have decided to put a couple of museum tsuba just for your enjoyment. I hope this addresses the balance of me being a bit selfish I need no comments I just hope you like this very small selection In the future I hope to show classes of tsuba like Namban, Sukashi etc just for the NMB pleasure Grev UK

Thanks to you all for your help and I’d like to reply to Richard. Loved the link to the interview I think that posting these tsuba helps everyone, I get to move the project forward and members have the chance to learn for other NMB’s input. I’m also hoping that some (unbeknown to me) will be real treasures When I spoke to Mr Haynes his last words were that if I needed any help then I just had to ask so I took the opportunity! I agree that the museum is getting something for nothing but if they were displayed there would be no entry charge so any money is only made in the gift shop. In this present economical environment they would stop in storage for another 100 years and that is something I feel shouldn’t be allowed to happen. While in there storage area I have seen a few hundred fuchi, kashira and menuki along with a limited number of swords in fine koshirae and armour. None of this is on their website or any publication that I know of so it’s almost like it doesn’t exist! I have personally benefited due to the amount I’ve learned since starting this quest, and knowing how hard this is I would still jump at chance of doing it again Grev UK

Hi Chris Always was a big task. I started his quest March 2013 so a years work to date and I expect this to take another year Initially there were 157 tsuba with mei Over the months either via the NMB or with the some volunteers (the volunteers were helping via PM's) 132 mei have been correctly identified and some of these as gimei This leaves 25 mei that are still in question which is not too many especially as I only put only put a few tsuba on the NMB per month One post I did on the 15th July 'Tsuba help' solicited 1123 views with 15 replies so I believe this initial aim of translating the mei is achievable Schools and dates is something I need to really think hard about as it is often stated it is only an opinion On an earlier post I asked about some Tosho tsuba that I was sure were wrong and this was confirmed so there is some headway that can be made in this area BTY. I retire in 2015 so I do have the time and enthusiasm but not the hands on experience (yet :lol: ) With thanks

Hi Jean Although I've stated this before I think it is worth restating The museum has around 600 tsuba that have not been on public display since 1915 In the catalogue that accompanied the exhibition there is quite a bit that is wrong and it is hard to find out were the attribution came from I think someone who had limited knowledge used there 'expertise' along with the collectors description as the catalogue description Then another person updated the museums description which is also prone to errors I've spoken to Mr Robert Haynes about this collection and he is aware of these tsuba and one is used in one his books A few days ago I have written to Mr Haynes to ask if has any more information about this collection I photographed the tsuba and with so much help from the NMB have corrected the mei, date and the tsuba school where known This then gives the museum a much more accurate description for there records Once this was exercise was completed I would explore with the museum the feasibility of publishing a book which I think is possible or at the very least have all the images on the museum website, currently they only have about a dozen tsuba on their website To sum up I need as much information as possible for each tsuba I hope this adequately answers your question I'm glad I haven't annoyed anyone so far Grev UK

Hi I put four tsuba on the NMB 5 days ago. John kindly translated the Soten tsuba but since then no other help was forthcoming. I was keen and encouraged to put these museum pieces for other member to enjoy as you never know if a real gem will appear I’m sorry if this sounds to abrupt but without some expert help it is a waste of time to add any more tsuba I know some members may take exception to my comment. So I’ll apologise before posting It may be against the rules to relist the same items and the same questions but in this rare case I felt it was the only way to make this point and I accept it is quite within the NMB right to remove this thread These were some tsuba I was about to trickle feed (over a few months) onto the NMB with the details I have managed to transcribe: LH Yoshinobu 良宣 with kao. RH *** Joi - RH side * kiyo/naga 氷 moto/gen 充 *. LH side Mune/sō 宗 * Echizen 越前 ju 住 Myochin 明弥 Yoshihisa 女久saku 作 Sanada 定* Tembō 天法 LH side Mitsunobu 光延. RH side * ** Tsunemasa 典 * + kao Tōu Yasuchika 宴 * Akao 赤尾 Jinzaēmon *** - Kado* 門* saku 作 Saōtome Iyehisa Shô/Masa 昌 Nari/Nori/Tada 規 Nakai Zensuke Tomotsune 任積 Nakai. Bearing in mind what I’ve said above I’m unsure whether to post them or not 1) 77 x 71 x 4.1mm 19C Tanaka Iyetsugu 家次 * Toshimasa (Nagamasa) 2) 69 x 63 x 6.5mm 1800 Cira Chōshū Nakai Nakai Tomotsugu 友次 of Chōshū 長州 3) 84 x 80 x 4.3mm 16C - 18C Myochin LH side Mitsunobu 光延. RH side * Grev UK

Thanks John Some times I can't see the wood for the trees!!! Grev UK

Hi I've ordered quite a few books from Grey Doffin over the last few months I great guy I received my last order yesterday. It was packed in a foam strip/blanket within a hardcover envelope - WOW Within this order was a catalogue for the museum that has the tsuba I'm working on I mentioned that I was giving this to the museum as they didn't have a copy so he put it in at no charge Grev UK

These are again some museum tsuba. Can anyone translate the mei (I’ve done a bit) Please can you add the kanji to the translation? I’ve also added the museum descriptions ie size, school & date whether I think that it right or wrong Any addition comments would be welcome 1) 77 x 71 x 4.1mm 19C Tanaka Iyetsugu 家次 * Toshimasa (Nagamasa) 2) 69 x 63 x 6.5mm 1800 Cira Chōshū Nakai Nakai Tomotsugu 友次 of Chōshū 長州 3) 78 x 72 x 4.4mm 17C - 19C Sōten of Hikone in Omi province LH Sōten 宗典 saku 作 (RH Akasaka 赤坂 ju 住 - doesn’t make sense) 4) 84 x 80 x 4.3mm 16C - 18C Myochin LH side Mitsunobu 光延. RH side * Grev UK

Re this reply (abridged) Hi Jean C., P.S. Fred D., that was how I was interrupting your post. Still I don't think the tsuba was made by the Choshu school as in my opinion as the iron is too heterogeneous and hard. _________________ Yours truly, David Stiles I added a thread about base tsuba material and one of my questions was about determining hardness Generally I had comments about only being able to test hardness on a Hardness testing machine and it was a fallacy to think you can test it by tapping the tsuba and telling by the 'ring' of the metal. So can I ask again how can hardness be determined? Grev UK

Re: Grev, actually, the first tsuba is the "worst offender" here Best regards Mariusz K I would like to start a new thread that just deals with the first tsuba As I newbie I can state what I liked about this tsuba and members can then offer there comments This can then be an example on the easier 'traps' to avoid It would hopefully be along the lines of the tsuba base metal thread I started earlier which threw up some great comments Grev

Back to the books!!!

I have no problems with your comments I didn't think the first tsuba was too bad Thanks for the links and I have only just ordered 6 books from Grey Grev UK

At the fear of pushing my request for help I am after the styles of these tsuba, or any info will help You don't have to kind with your comments These are from my collection, one bought from EBay and one from the NMB 1) Size = 76 x 72 x 4mm 2 Size = 74 x 61 x 6mm I liked the carving on this one (the whole mimi is carved) although it's a same that porosity is evident Grev UK

I had a PM about this post to say it had been forwarded to Mr Robert Haynes for his comments. I was amazed to receive a call today from Mr Haynes especially as it was from the US to the UK. Bob basically stated that it is difficult to assess tsuba using only photos but if I wanted to send him any questions or photos he would be happy to give his opinions. He is working on another book at the moment and said he would let me have some details. I need to say Mr Haynes was an absolute gentleman more than happy to speak and help a novice like me. He is 84 years old and in very good health and a joy to talk to. I will be writing to him and hopefully this will help me with my collection Grev UK

Thanks for all your help It appears that No 3 is unable to be defined I like the heavy then delicate handling of the design Grev UK

Hi all, 'None of these are Tosho tsuba. The first tsuba looks like a Kanayama tsuba circa late Muromachi Period from Owari Province.' I agree that none are Tosho but has anybody any idea where they may have been made? I though the thickness and basic style seemed similar and may be an indecator Obviously not made to decieve so could it just be a provinsional maker? There are more examples similar to this in the museum hence my post Thanks Grev UK

I didn't think they were hence but stating the museum's description Just wonder what they are Grev

These tsuba are from the museum project I’m working on These all are very thick (a bit like me ). The descriptions are from 1930 and most are described as ‘made by a swordsmith’. Do members think this is correct? I’ve looked through my books and although some designs are fairly common none are this think so just looking for any more information. No 3 seems the strangest being so thick and heavy but with some very thin sukashi 1) 33 x 70 x 70 x 6.7mm 15C Swordsmith Crescent and astrological symbols and blacksmith's tongs. 2) 34 x 74 x 70 x 8.0mm 15C - Very late Swordsmith Vertical cross pieces. 3) 36 x 62 x 57 x 6.7mm 1750 Cira Swordsmith Small birds 4) 36 x 75 x 72 x 6.2mm 1750 Cira Swordsmith Convoluted pipe design called the 'herb of a thousand years' of the Sennins 5) 80 x 72 x 70 x 7.9mm 1750 Cira Bushū Decorated with four stylised ginger shoots Grev UK

Hi I read all the comments with interest I have attached two tsuba that may interest you Are there any valid/interesting points that can be made about the tsuba blank? The blank is not laminated. There are file marks that criss/cross the surface and some surface porosity I can guess this is a blank of low to medium quality There are no file marks or porosity on the finished tsuba. It is not laminated The blanks has already been shown on the NMB PS With respect, the tsuba's application and 'balance' has moved off topic as this was posted to try to understand the basic iron tsuba qualities Grev

Jean/Brian Great replies - many thanks I think what I'm trying to get to is the offhand/blasé way the iron is described as if it is a self evident truth (easy to determine) With reference to hardness I can use a hardness tester using a Rockwell hardness number but something I would not be happy doing There is a scleroscope which is used to measure rebound hardness. Acknowledged as a rough method, the Leeb Rebound Hardness Test uses the ratio of impact and rebound velocities (as measured by a magnetic inducer) to determine hardness. I had a scleroscope a long time ago but never found it very accurate I hope this is not too far of topic and doesn't need to be expanded upon. A beginner gets lost because such a simple thing as the base metal can not be easily understood and what is now evident is the years of experience required I will print off Jean's reply and see if I can get further with my study although the points about 'bones' is very interesting and would love to know more Thanks Grev UK

I would appreciate any views about the following NMB members always say to read as much as possible but only having one Robinson tsuba book I was quite happy to use this. I knew how to determine schools and ages, happy days. Now I have quite a few tsuba books and many catalogues and now know nothing!!!!!!!! Edit: Generally I can assume that good tsuba can only be made from good iron & vice versa so I'm keen to try to understand this fundamental point. The books I have talk about the base metal but no close ups where the differences can be seen As it can be overwhelming to absorb all a tsuba attributes, age, style, patina etc I thought I’d look into the base metal and a couple of other features. Looking at the R Haynes Catalogue #4 I’m just more confused. These are some examples: 1001 - Triple ‘S’ curve fold This I assume is where the metal is folded twice 1243 – Kettle makers casting. These were cast from the last drops of molten metal after the kettles were made How on earth can someone be so specific and if they can how can a laymen spot this type 1325 – Exceptionally fine iron plate with a liquid feeling Means nothing to me 1046 – Factory iron plate 1201 – Factory plate, well forged How can I tell if factory iron plate is used and how well it was produced? 1014 - Sand iron 1210 – Refined sand iron 1190 – Well forged sand iron How can I tell if it is sand iron plate that is used and how well it was produced? 1055 – Very hard iron plate The only way I can tell if the metal is hard it to tap it and tell by the ring 1092 – Rich plate is pure Momoyama period Can age be determined by the metal used? 1169 – Iron of Owari quality 1041 – Iron of the Saotome I’m sure a school may be determined by the metal but how 1017 – Hitsuana, Higo style 1027 – Hituana, Jingo school, Higo style 1093 – Hitsuana is pure Shoami Does anyone have images of differing hitsuana schools? 1249 – Early casting I know how derogative NMB members can be when talking castings I understand that some casting are finally chiselled but other are left as cast I have a cast tsuba that has a quite porous surface so I hold this in very low esteem Don’t even start me on bones I bought this one just after I started collecting tsuba and was sold as: ‘fine tekkotsu showing on mimi’ All I can see is corrosion – I must get out more! PS 1011 – The sukashi is not known and the author asks for suggestions. I know what they look like to me but it would be too rude to say! Grev UK

Thanks for your replies According to Haynes my 1st tsuba is Hoan school It was bought from Japan via EBay just over a year ago and didn't cost very much I lost the original description when my computer died although It was described as Tosho but at that time I'd only been collecting for a few months so although hard to believe I knew less then than I do now! Perhaps I should go back through them all and re-evaluate. I now have 125 in my collection and possibly only about ten with slight merit Apart from a couple of rash/hasty buys I'm sure I've bought for good prices These have given me an idea of tsuba types etc. In the future I may sell most of them to buy a couple of good examples Grev UK

Tsuba info These are my own tsuba although there is one in the Museum collection This is the museum example, stated as the Myochin school Size = 78 x 74 x 3.1mm and dated 1700 My first purchase of this type School = Tosho - Mei Kishu ju Sadanaga Size = 78 x 76 x 4mm and dated 1700 I think this is a good tsuba My second purchase School unknown - Size = 75 x 75 x 3.2mm (katana) and dated 1850 I do not know what to think about the following two tsuba although inferior to the preceding two tsuba My third purchase School unknown - Size = 72 x 72 x 3.0mm (Wakizashi) and dated 1850 Although described as crenulated I think of these as like a lotus leaf I bought these because I thought them unusual and maybe Myochin but mainly because I have worked in metal most of my life and can understand how difficult it would be for me to create this crenulated shape I would welcome any comments, good or bad. Also any comparisons between these tsuba PS - Great link to the Church Tsuba - Thanks Grev UK

Thanks Curran I thought some were wrong but just needed it confirming Grev UK