Ford Hallam

I would add that I agree with Ian B in his opinion that the mounts may be as late as Meiji period. The style of engraving ( kata-kiri ) in that very flowing and loose way is a fairly good pointer for me in that respect. With that in mind I'd be somewhat doubtful of the blade having any real value, or age. I wouldn't go for this with your money I also think Shan has in fact made some valid points regards, Ford

just to add to my previous post; I'm not suggesting this is a deliberate attempt at faking. I don't believe it is. I think it is a perfectly legitimate piece of relatively modern work done by an enthusiastic amateur. Nothing wrong, or bad about that. imo

ask yourself this Milt; is it worth it to lovingly restore a classic car, to build a faithful scale model, in wood, of HMS Victory, or to create a working, scale model, in metal, of a steam locomotive?.....the answer, in purely monetary terms, is an unequivocal "NO", but this is not the point for the dedicated amateur. Nor for that matter, for real artists. Reminds me of the definition of an accountant; " someone who knows the cost of everything but the value of nothing" regards, Ford ( the heretic...not yet burnt at the stake )

in line with my official status as heretic I would offer the following observations; The overall feel is quite crisp and tidy but the engraved lines seem somewhat awkward to my eyes. The inner edge of the ryo-hitsu is very uncomfortable, in fact impractical, I refer to the part that would be alongside the kozuka or kogai. The nakago ana is nicely formed, almost too nicely (?), but the kuchi beni ( the punch marks at top and bottom ) seem contrived, as though they don't really serve any function other than decoration. Although the piercing work is quite tidy, as I mentioned, I still get an impression of amateurishness. Some of the lines, while neatly filed up, reveal an initial error in cutting out that upsets the overall integrity of the design. My assessment would be that this is the work of a fairly skilled amateur working sometime in the last 60 years. A tidy copy of an earlier Higo design. Regards, Ford

Hi Ray, I do remember...the saw blades you describe are/were standard Jewellers saw blades, albeit the finer ones. I use the 2 finest ones ( 6/0 and 8/0) for cutting out 0.5mm thick material for very fine inlays. I think the ones used for the tsuba you describe were 2/0 or 3/0. The bigger the number the finer the blade size. As far as I know the blades favoured by craftsmen in Japan are all namban nowadays ...can't think of a Japanese brand either. regards, Ford

Although there doesn't appear to be any physical evidence for the use of the wire ( or string) and abrasive compound technique in metalwork in Japan it's generally accepted that the precursor to piercing saw blades as we know them today was some sort of stringing technique. With string, a glue like lacquer, would have held the abrasive in place while if you use copper wire the grit tends to embed itself in the softer metal. I'd imagine a lubricant, oil say, and a regular addition of abrasive would have been necessary. We know from very accurate analysis that this is exactly how jade was cut for at least couple of thousand years BC. I would suggest that the technique would have been known to early craftsmen in Japan. We also know that chisels were regularly used to pierce metal. Rich, I'd say your tsuba would more easily have been cut out using chisels. The thread technique would be slower I suspect and so not have offered any real advantage. I'll have to do some re-creative experimentation sometime, with this wire/thread method. It may be that a lot of early pierced tsuba were cut this way but we only really take note of these very fine ones because it would be quite difficult to do today using a jewellers saw. It might actually be easier using the old technique....I'll let you know. regards, Ford

The kozuka looks very much to be in the technical style of the school of Sugiura Joi. He was one of the famous Nara San-saku...the 3 famous makers of Nara. The other 2 being Tsuchiya Yasuchika and Ichinomia Nagatsune. The type of sunken relief, where the figure is outlined by a chiselled line and then the modelling done within the line and below the surface of the plate is called "shishiai-bori" ( we'd call it Intaglio in English...and Italian :D ) and is almost uniquely associated with this school. Occasionally you will find the face, or focal point of the design, done in actual raised inlay but with the Joi school that is not typical. Unfortunately it's impossible to accurately judge the true quality of the work due to the rust product that encrusts the surface...it may well surprise . The subject, Shoki, is also common for this group. Quite a decent piece imo....far more interesting to me that the pointy bit that came with it It just needs a bit of tender loving care. regards, Ford

Malcolm...thanks for the thought :D ..as for the unspeakable, I never let the stuff pass my lips...I have some standards Jean, can't make it this week...but I will darken your doorstep one day....thanks for the invite cheers, Ford

for those of you visiting Japan for the first time, for the DTI, here's an informative bit of film about that may lift the veil of exoticness a little; here's the link :D

Hmmm....I think you chaps are very unfair being so nice to me...how the hell am I supposed to become a hermit now? I'm a bit embarrassed at this show of solidarity and understanding...I almost expect you all to start singing this seriously, Thank you all...I actually feel quite revitalised....but still need to stay in my cave for the next week ( delicate work in hand), then there's 18 days of hell in the East.... I'll recompose myself, and then in the words of Arnie; " I'll be Bach" I didn't mean to appear churlish and get all secretive, I just need to be a bit more selective...thanks again for all your understanding. Now where's that sake someone mentioned? regards, Ford

Gentlemen, ...it would seem that I owe a lot of people an apology. Apparently my rather direct and robust comments have offended certain sensibilities. It has rarely been my intention to be deliberately rude or offensive to anyone. Of course there have been exceptions when I felt justified and I will make no apology for those occasions where my opposites in any discussions or debates have given as good as they got. To those who, while not actually directly involved in any of those "debates" and who felt my writing to be harsh I offer my honest apology. A couple of topics that I have been very active in recently have convinced me to withdraw from making any further comment on technical matters regarding Japanese metalwork on this forum. After nearly 30 years of single-minded study and attempting to master my tradition I find it utterly soul destroying to have to expend great deals of time and energy try to "convince" people with no real knowledge of metalwork of the integrity of my opinion or explanations. I hope this doesn't sound petulant but to be honest this sort of effort is having a negative effect on my own work and I need to put that first. I am still more than happy to help anyone with genuine questions and advice in whatever way I can but would ask that they contact me via my own forum, either publicly or via pm. There I needn't enter into pedantic debates and can concentrate on factual matters. I'd also like to make it clear that this decision of mine has not been prompted by the management in any way at all. I've always enjoyed the support and appreciation of our moderators. I'll be in Japan for the DTI and will no doubt meet some of you in the flesh...at last. You've have an opportunity to either change my mind or punish me, whichever your inclination, by plying me with vast quantities of sake. I'll still be around but didn't want anyone to think me any more rude by ignoring any technical questions that may have been directed to me. Thank you for your patience and for taking the time to read yet more of my ramblings. Best regards to all, Ford

just to add to Brian's summation; my comment regarding the visual assessment of shakudo referred specifically to compositions ranging from 1 to 4 or 5% gold content. This has actually been verified by analysing the reflected light and the actual variations in different wavelengths that make up the perceived colour. regards, Ford

you sound like a bloody lawyer, Guido ...he he , nice try though. Actually the hare, which is close to life size and feels as light as though it was made of paper, isn't kinko work. It's actually a branch of tankin, hammered, or raised work. In a general sense though, yes, in my approach the basic metal is not a factor in my costing..unless you want it in gold, I'm always just horribly expensive

Gents, firstly I should say that the ease with with a material could be worked was probably never a big consideration for professional craftsmen. In fact it is quite common to find that materials are used in a particular way precisely because it is difficult...Meiji period raised and hollow animals in iron sheet come to mind, these are simply crazy. With regard to pure copper compared to shakudo, there is no real difference at all in the way it works...the difference only becomes evident after patination. So I'd suggest the choice of material in this case, and in all kinko work, would be essentially an aesthetic one.

forgive me for being the geek here :| but I also like to comment on the apparent luxuriousness of shakudo. In fact a perfectly solid (and indistinguishable visually from other higher grades ) black colour can be obtained on a shakudo alloy with as little as .5% gold ( half a percent ) , usually with a little shirome ( the arsenic in there does the job I think) and a similar, ie .5% silver. This is a not uncommon composition on earlier shakudo pieces. At the beginning of the Edo period gold was apparently only 4 times more expensive than silver in Japan. This was why the Jesuit traders bought gold from Japan ( where, due to it's isolation the they were unaware of the much higher gold price in the rest of the trading world) and paid for it with silver pillaged from Mexico and South America. I'd guestimate that there is probably no more than 20 grams of shakudo on those plugs ( they are unlikely to be solid but rather veneers of shakudo soldered to a copper base) at today's gold price that would put the cost of the gold at less than $20 and possibly as low as $5. ...more like furry dice hanging from the rear view mirror :D although a fox's tail does sound pretty damn cool Regards, Ford

nah! ...that's probably herpes

Cheers Martin :D ..your cheque's in the post

Morning Brian, ( grumpy ) all I will say is...wait until Tokyo...nomi, nomi, nomi I know the song well, Milt...he he ok...no more...

Morning Steve, I'll try to clarify... You seemed to be describing a raised and folded-over rim ...which your Owari tsuba most certainly does not have. [ Uchi-keashi-mimi ; Rim hammered to flip over. this definition from the Boston Museum catalogue glossary by Morihiro Ogawa ] Uchi-kaeshi literally means hammered ( or struck) return, the meanig being fairly clear, I think. So your speculation of the properties of the steel are based, in this instance, on a process that wasn't used. because iron does not contain any carbon, which is need to harden the metal...but I think we've covered that bit of confusion. I don't know if you've read this thread but as you'll see, there has not always been consensus on the matter of iron versus steel so I couldn't be sure of you're implied meaning at all. You may want to follow the link Mike provided, to Boris' thesis on the matter too, seeing as you acquired the guard from him in the first place. The possibility that the nie, and the required hardening, might have come about due to a house fire is also a bit unlikely. This is one of the usual ways in which swords actually lose their hamon. If you'd taken the time to read the article Pete linked to you'd have learned that martensite forms when the steel is rapidly cooled from a high temperature. Typically, swords, and we may assume tsuba too, that were in fires would have cooled slowly, in fact perfect conditions to obtain the maximum softness. Anyway, I hope that enough has been written here to get us away from the improbable notion of nie in tsuba. I think John's suggestion regarding the "crystalline facets reflecting light" is in fact a very plausible one and adequately describes what you may be seeing. Personally, I believe that if someone is going to make exceptional claims in this field, and let's face it...after a few hundred years of connoisseurship for nie to be " suddenly" discovered in a tsuba patina is a bit like suggesting the earth is the centre of our solar system after all , this is going to require exceptional evidence Good topic though...and one that needed to be aired. regards, Ford p.s. If you want to post the tsuba to me for a closer look....I've got a microscope , I can pm you my address.

the drinking prince....I like it :D , Brian, change my ranking please, no more heretic the engraved lines are not uncommon in Higo work. I think later Edo...and the seppa-dai also doesn't seem too out of line to me at least

Hey, Milt with beer goggles on ( well, in my case a fine sancerre ) I can see the Daigoro and kyo-sukashi hints too. Not sure about a pure Akasaka tag....there are others far more familiar with those subtleties, but I get a sniff of Higo in there....or is that just me needing some fresh air? regards, Ford

only if you misunderestimate us

I bow to your astute and profound metallurgical understanding, Steve as far as I'm concerned you're entitled to your own opinion...however you choose to validate it. At this point the difficulty I would have in arguing my point further with you is the fact that you don't seem to really understand metalwork technology, so my "explanation" is bound to be unconvincing ...as far as you're concerned I might just be making this stuff up to mess with your head ....and who knows, maybe I am As a technical aside, Owari guards don't usually have raised rims and if the guard is made of iron, as you describe, then no hardening would be possible anyway. My reply was not only offered to you but to the general membership of the forum. Perhaps they will be more convinced Actually your argument reminds me of a similar one UFO fans offer. "if it's not an alien flying saucer then what else could it be?" :D . I find that the most reasonable answer, in the absence of any definitive proof, is the safest bet. In terms of your hypothesis I'd suggest the onus is on you to convince us :| ...and now that you've discovered nie on your tsuba it would probably be worth having a good look for utsuri too btw, I know Eric Knowles...and he was happy to pay me for quality work that wasn't cheap :D . Regards, Ford just seen your post, Richard ...so in reply Nie and nioi are micro-crystalline structures that occur as a consequence of the heat treatment of the edge of blades. The quality of the steel is obviously a prerequisite, to a certain extent, but this sort of structure ( martensite crystals) essentially dissolves when steel is annealed or normalised to soften it, and make it workable. The point being, even if you made a tsuba from an old sword you'd have to re-harden it once it was shaped, to reform matensite ( nie, nioi...they are the same thing, the only difference is in size which is a factor of the length of time of heating). The main objection to there being nioi present in a tsuba, whether visible or not, would be the practicality of having a guard that hard....we all know sword blade edges chip, would you want to have a tsuba ( something that is bound to get a few bumps at least ) hardened to that extent? I doubt it myself and on a sukashi tsuba like an Owari guard I think it a even more unlikely.

brilliant :lol:

hmmm....isn't that Kanayama one an early depiction of a "blitzkrieg" motif? as for your philosophy...I'm certainly inspired ...now where's my riding crop and my serving wenches? p.s. Milt...never thought I'd say this ...but I quite like that tsuba of yours...good shooting :D