Form or function. Yes, an itch I need to scratch every so often. Function precedes form for the most part and sometimes form can be retrogressive. This appears in the low regard found in a lot of people in regards to Soten work for example, not all, some are impressive. However, Minoto have had a similar reputation even though as Jean noted they had a reputation of sharpness. Now when both criteria are met we really have something. The gunto that were mass produced were indeed good choppers but not art swords ( I do not refer to the well made traditional swords) so, in this case do not include them. It isn't the Kantei, knowing what a particular sword is, but the value based on what criteria is used to evaluate that sword. The intrinsic value of a good sword should not change as tastes change over time. Anyhow, food for thought. John