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War Capture Katate Uchi

gunto gendaito translation wakizashi showato

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#1 SamisaBokken

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 05:13 AM

Hi All,

I have been asked to carve a Bokuto from a war capture sword.

This sword was obtained directly from the returned soldier who obtained it, so I believe it is genuine.

I think it is by Ido Hidetoshi, who worked out of Seki Before and into WW2.

 

It has an interesting shape, and is between a Wakisashi and Katana in length, but perhaps with the shape of a Katate Uchi(?).

 

From the various Bokuto I have carved from it in Australian hardwoods, it handles and feels balanced as a one haded sword

 

I will post initial pics, if more are required (perhaps the full tang?) forgive me, I will take and post them as soon as possible.

signature lower.JPG signature upper.JPG sword full.JPG

 

All the best, and thanks in advance,

 

Stu Smith



#2 Ian B3HR2UH

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 10:12 AM

Even though it is a pretty crummy sword even it deserves a little more respect than to be used as a carving tool . Idiotic I think .

Ian brooks



#3 nagamaki - Franco

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 10:24 AM

Even though it is a pretty crummy sword even it deserves a little more respect than to be used as a carving tool . Idiotic I think .

Ian brooks

 

Unless I'm misunderstanding what was originally written  :?:  :?:  :?: , it seems that the sword is being used as a model to carve bokuto, and not as a carving tool itself. 


_________
Regards,

Franco

#4 Ian B3HR2UH

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 11:10 AM

I hope you are right Franco . Ian



#5 SamisaBokken

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 02:19 PM

Hi Ian,

Sorry you misunderstood my use of English,

I meant I am using it for a template to carve Bokuto from Australian hardwood timbers.

Maybe you have had a hard week, jumping to conclusions.

Maybe a definition: Bokuto, a wooden sword. I am using it as a template.

 

Cheers,

 

Stu Smith


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#6 Greg F

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 04:03 PM

Hi Stu and welcome. Ive thought about doing the same. What types of Ozzy wood are you using? Any pics of the bokens? Would to know how you go about it, do you use wood that has a curve in the grain etc? All the best.

Greg
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#7 SamisaBokken

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 04:00 AM

Hi Greg,

 

Thanks for the welcome and hi to you, I thought maybe I was in the wrong place for a minute.

 

In answer to your questions:

I am using woods at the harder/tougher end of the scale at the moment, so Australian grey ironbark, river redgum, forest redgum for one that I would put forward as two person contact weapons.

Also Australian blackwood, Yellow stringybark, and a few exotics (for us) Teak, Padauk, Wenge, that I would put forward as light two person contact and excellent suburi Bokken, especially as the heavier woods take a lot more physical strength to do your 500 cuts a day haha.

 

I have some pics up on Etsy, if you go on, just type SamisaBokken in the search and 5 will come up.

Each of the Bokken that you see have been tested to varying degrees, as I would not put anything forward without being very honest and confident in what they are capable of.

 

A link to some videos which are up on YouTube (please forgive the sad sense of humour):

 

https://www.youtube....ry=samisabokken

 

The critical part in making these Bokken I think is that they are one integral piece of wood through the whole length.

This though is a fairly rare thing, especially in some Australian timbers which are all over the place, however I have found by testing that the interlocked grain in many Australian eucalyptus they hold together with what in some timbers may be thought of as flaws. In this case, i work any flaws down to the Tsuka, keeping the striking area as one integral piece.

 

Feel free to contact me if you need any help with your own Bokken/Bokuto making.

 

All the best,

 

Stu Smith


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#8 Jussi Ekholm

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 05:51 PM

Can you give use the measurements? Based on the pictures I see it is not made in katate uchi style. This one seems to have a short blade and long tang. Many Japanese swords are good for one handed use because they are so short in length even though they are often relatively heavy for their size due to thickness.


Jussi Ekholm


#9 Greg F

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 03:02 PM

They look quite strong Stu. Is there a natural curve in the wood your using? Any vids of the process? Cheers.

Greg

#10 SamisaBokken

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 04:17 AM

Hi to Jussi,

I will get back to you when I have the measurements, I need to go and have a look at it.

Thanks for the reply,

Stu Smith



#11 SamisaBokken

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 04:40 AM

Hi Greg,

The selection and shaping of a particular piece of timber is more involved than it may appear.

I am writing an article on the use of Australian timbers which will go into the selection and shaping of timber with a particular grain pattern or growth ring orientation.

 

To cut a long story short:

If the growth rings are parallel or at an angle to the edges of the Bokuto (normally considered the ideal)  then the line of those rings must go the length of the Bokuto if possible, from tip to Tsuka. Then the grain looking side on to the blade is not as important, although I am always looking for a piece that is correct both ways (I have just done an Aikido bokken like this).

 

If the growth rings are horizontal to the sides of the Bokuto, I don't discount it, as I an doing my homework on laminated engineering timber, which is sometimes oriented this way. In this cases it is critical that the grain of the timber when the Bokuto is looked at side on should follow the whole length, from Kissake to Tsuka.

In cases where I have tried this, I have done the current breaks, Coconut, 25mm Tas Oak dowel and 20mm sandstone paving slabs, and have not managed to break a Bokuto.

Maybe I will step up the testing to see what the limits are, but I want a practical test, not 'break the Bokken', because anything can be broken with enough power and the immovable object

 

Sorry, it's easier to show that explain, maybe a sketch would be better.

 

I don't have a video of me doing the whole process from plank to finished item, I might think about it, but I would rather prove that I am on the right track first, to explain from a position of competence.

 

All the best,

 

Stu Smith.

 

ps. to the moderators,

I don't know if this is still the correct area of the Forum for this discussion, if it's not, please feel free to let me know.


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#12 Chango

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 11:46 PM

Hi All,

I have been asked to carve a Bokuto from a war capture sword.

This sword was obtained directly from the returned soldier who obtained it, so I believe it is genuine.

I think it is by Ido Hidetoshi, who worked out of Seki Before and into WW2.

 

It has an interesting shape, and is between a Wakisashi and Katana in length, but perhaps with the shape of a Katate Uchi(?).

 

 

Not a Katateuchi, it would have to be of Muromachi era vintage (1460-1530-ish) and with a 1-handed tang to count as one. Wrong shape too. 


Jason A





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