Possible help in identifying an old blade

[bkraft]

Hello. I'm looking for any possible help in trying to identify an old blade. Please bear with me as I am a novice and am trying to learn as much as I can.

 

I purchased this blade many years ago. When I got it, it was covered in deep rust. Parts of it were quite scary. Windows opened at the boshi and along the face of the blade both came out promising. I got on a waiting list and had the blade polished. Due to it's condition, I decided to stop at a foundation polish rather than making any more effort on a finish polish.

 

This blade is signed tachi mei, however, at some point in it's life, it was cut down. I assume to shorten it to katana length. (The cutting edge as it sits is 27 1/2") When it was cut, the mei was partially removed. All that remains are two characters which I believe are CHIKU SHU... the old spelling for the Chikuzen Province??

 

As you can see from the pictures, the hamon is mostly straight, on either side, however, about 9 or 10" down from the tip, the hamon flairs into a taller cloud like formation. This is much more extravagent on the left side of the blade.

 

I suppose my only hope of attempting to track down a smith to attribute to would be to start looking at Chikuzen smiths from the mid 1400s and earlier that began their signatures with CHIKU SHU and compare hamon, general shape folding grain, ect to come up with a guess... How much of a needle in a haystack am I getting into?

 

I will post some pics below. Any comments and insights are appreciated. If anyone wants more specific pics, let me know. know some of these aren't the best. I tried to get as detailed as I could, but I can try for better if needed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again, thanks for your time. I have about 60 photos from this set as well as a dozen or so of the blade in it;s rust encrusted state before polishing.

[John A Stuart]

Hello Blair, Suriage changed this to earlier since it must have been koshizori and the patina is older with a heavy Nambokucho era sugata/ late Kamakura? partial mei Chikushu (place). Need better pics. John

[nagamaki - Franco]

I suppose my only hope of attempting to track down a smith to attribute to would be to start looking at Chikuzen smiths from the mid 1400s and earlier

 

Usually, it is just when we begin to convince ourselves that we are moving in the right direction based upon the mei rather than the shape and workmanship of a blade that we end up finding ourselves completely lost.

[george trotter]

Blair,

As has been said, and I'm sure you know already, it is the sugata, hamon etc which points the direction and confirms the mei...you have a nice sword and if I may say, the characteristics seem quite distinctive...it should be a fairly clear path to finding the era/school and possibly maker...enjoy the research.

Geo.

PS...forgive my presumption, but in my humble opinion, a sashikomi finish polish would be most appropriate to bring out the hamon line here.

[bkraft]

Thank you for all of your replies so far. I appreciate your time and opinions as I begin to try and learn and understand.

I've picked up a copy of John Yumoto's "The Samurai Sword" as well as a copy of Kokan Nagayama's "The Connoisseur's Book of Japanese Swords". Would there be other good books that I should be looking at while getting started?

 

 

George, I appreciate your opinion on the finish polish and I believe I am very much in agreement with you. As I said, when I first obtained this blade, it was covered in deep rust. That isn't an understatement. It looked really rough. The windows were promising, but there were areas that I was sure would not come out in a polish. I was upfront with the togishi regarding this, and after receiving the blade, he contacted me to say that he was sure there would be areas that would remain as they were too deep to get out entirely. He contacted me after completing the foundation polish and recommended that we stop and I view the sword before deciding what I wanted to do. I believe he may have felt that I would be upset if I paid for a full finish polish and then saw the marks on the blade that wouldn't come out. When I got the blade back, I was amazed! I thought that he was able to accomplish more with the blade than I ever expected out of it. There was actually much less of the rust remaining than what I expected to find. I was extremely happy with his work and effort and I told him so. But I have not at this time started down the path of having a finish polish done. I'm sure I will probably do so. The marks that remain may or may not make it worthwhile, but this is a piece I intend to keep for a long time. I am not as concerned with it's value or it's investment potential. I am thoroughly enjoying it as my first trek into Nihonto and believe I will keep it for it's sentimental value to me more than anything else.

 

That said, I took a few more photos and made some measurements that I wanted to share.

 

Is the Nagasa traditionally measured from the munemachi or the nakago-jiri? I'm assuming munemachi. I wish I had a set of mics as I could be more precise with these measurements, but, as it is, I did the best that I could with what I had.

 

nagasa = 36" from nakago-jiri to kissaki 27 5/8" from munemachi to kissaki

kasane = 6 mm

width at ha-machi 30mm

width at yokote 22mm

sori 23mm (Though this could have changed since it's been cut down, correct?)

 

I noted that the ha-machi is only very slight. I assume this is from mutliple polishings over the years? To my eye, the blade appears to have a low-back mune and the boshi appears o-mara or possibly ko-maru (as I'm likely too inexperienced to know the difference). I believe this may be hard to tell from the photos. I'm trying different light sources and locations but soetimes it is difficult to make the hamon "pop" in the images.

 

Right side of Tang

 

 

Left side of Tang

 

Right of boshi (in both of these pics you can see some of the deep rust that couldn't be removed in the foundation polish so you'll see what i was talking about above.

 

Left of boshi

 

This last pic shows some more of the areas that can't be removed. These look like open welds to me? Perhaps exacerbated by the rust it sat in for years?

[cabowen]

this old soldier is very tired.....

[Grey Doffin]

Blair,

By tired, Chris means that the sword has been polished enough that defects have come to the surface. Those in the bottom picture have little to do with rust; they are forging flaws. Before you spend more money on this sword you need to realize that you will never get it back. When the time comes to sell (and it will come, unless you plan to be buried with it), you will recoup only a small fraction of what you have in it.

Nagasa is from the tip of the kissaki to the mune-machi in a straight line.

Grey

[cabowen]

Not so much that defects have come to the surface but the core steel has been exposed by polishing away the skin steel.....Grey is right- this is a sinking ship financially.....

[george trotter]

Hi Blair,

thanks for the additional pics...I think you are getting sound advice, the sword is at the end of its life. It has done a lifetime of work and cannot be "brought back" IMHO. I would not spend any more money here but enjoy it and do the the research.

Regards,

George.

[bkraft]

Again, the advice of everyone is very much appreciated. I have so much to learn.

 

I can see that the best thing to do is to simply make sure it is cleaned and oiled to prevent future rust from forming and still enjoy the blade for study and research purposes.

 

I'm not so concerned about the financial state. As I said, I'm not looking to sell it and I'm glad I've spent what I have on it to bring it back from the rusted piece it was when I found it. Still, as you all have said, it wouldn't make much sense to put any large additional amounts into this blade. That money would be better left accumulating to go toward the next one :D