togi

[Shepherd]

Togi, what makes a person qualified to polish a sword ?

 

I'm looking for a definitive answer as it seems the term is being thrown around willy nilly by anyone with a muddy rock.

 

What are the qualifications? Where does one go to learn it? apprenticeship?

 

Lately, it seems to be the fad to adopt a Japanese name for something ( I think for marketing or validity)

 

I may sound like I'm splitting hairs, but tamahagane only comes from Japan- otherwise it's bloomery steel

 

Am I splitting hairs and being a snob?

[Jamie]

I am sure you will get plenty of answers from the members here.

 

The basics though are being traditionally Japanese trained, by a master Togi. The apprenticeship is ten years.

 

 

You're not being a snob, or splitting hairs. An amateur can do more damage than good in many cases.

[sanjuro]

The sad fact is that there are a lot of guys out there claiming to be sword polishers. They are for the most part amateurs, often self taught (I'm at a loss to understand how someone who doesnt know anything can teach themselves something about a subject they are ignorant of), and such people constitute a danger to any sword they work on. Only someone who has served an apprenticeship in Japan or elsewhere under the tutelage of a recognised Japanese togishi, can legitimately call themselves a sword polisher. The correct polishing of a blade involves a lot more than just grinding a piece of steel against a rock. It requires knowledge of the steel, The sword itself, indeed all swords from all schools and all periods of history, and a knowledge of the making of the sword and how it differed from school to school.

Too much damage is done to too many blades by well meaning amateurs who know little more than how to grind metal on a series of graded rocks.

 

Elitist perhaps, snobbish no. Just common sense when it comes to paying large dollars for critical work on an irreplaceable artifact.

[Jean]

Keith,

 

You have forgotten one thing, in addition, he must be gifted

[Shepherd]

This may be redundant, but who certifies them or gives a person the credentials saying they are qualified as a polisher?

 

S.Shepherd

[takakage]

Hi,

 

For example, the list of togishi in the NBTHK magazine 636.

 

 

Last week, a french self made "togishi" sent me a mail with his web link.......He claims that he is an artist

it's no use to waste time with such bad man .

[cabowen]

This may be redundant, but who certifies them or gives a person the credentials saying they are qualified as a polisher?

 

S.Shepherd

 

 

As others have noted, a properly trained, professional polisher undergoes an apprenticeship under a master polisher. This usually lasts 8-10 years. They are certified by their instructor. I do not believe there are any master polishers training students outside of Japan.

 

It is rather easy to tell if a polisher is professionally trained or an amateur as there are only two professionally trained polishers in the US and Canada, both are on the West coast. There is another in Hawaii.

 

I know of none in Europe or elsewhere outside of Japan at present. If someone knows of a fully trained professional in Europe, please correct me.

 

There are a few who claim to be Japanese trained but do not confuse a few months here and there with the proper training.

 

Some things just can't be self taught and proper kantei (an important part of polishing) and polishing is one of them.

[Shepherd]

Than you gentelmen for you comments. I've also been emailing a member of the NBTHK of America for their opinion.

 

I'm becoming increasingly frustrated with the individual, and while I understand his point, he refuses to understand .

 

I hope it's ok, I'd like for you to see the thread and make sure I haven't been out of line.

 

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... -Wakizashi

 

S.Shepherd

[Lee Bray]

Certainly not out of line.

If the gentleman cannot identify the age and school or maker of the blade then how can he know how to restore it to its proper state? Obviously he can't.

No doubt a good bladesmith and craftsman but not the qualifications needed for Nihonto restoration. It's restoration, not putting a shiny finish on a blade.

 

But argue with the wind. You'll get just as far.

[sanjuro]

Question:

 

Is Ilmarinen a trained togishi? No... If he was, he would be able to identify the school and period accurately.

 

At a guess, I doubt he would be able to kantei any nihonto....... Therefore he is an amateur, he may or may not be a gifted amateur, but an amatuer non the less. Amateurs are not only misleading themselves but others as well.

 

I would be fascinated by what he considers a 'museum polish' to be....... Sashikomi? Hadori? Or is this some special polish used only in museums???????????

 

Dont under any circumstances give this man a sword to polish.

[Toryu2020]

Amen Keith!

[Shepherd]

Who is incharge of determining who is qualified to polish/restore blades, so they would still be of value ?

[Brian]

Nobody is "in charge" and I don't think anyone has to be. The results determine who is capable of polishing to a decent standard. Although there are societies etc involved, it is silly to think that someone somewhere rubber stamps a job to say it has increased in value.

Anyone who knows swords well enough to be able to identify a good polish can plainly see the results of a good or bad polish. If it has a good polish, it has kept its value or increased it.

 

Brian

[Shepherd]

Nobody is "in charge" and I don't think anyone has to be. The results determine who is capable of polishing to a decent standard. Although there are societies etc involved, it is silly to think that someone somewhere rubber stamps a job to say it has increased in value.

Anyone who knows swords well enough to be able to identify a good polish can plainly see the results of a good or bad polish. If it has a good polish, it has kept its value or increased it.

 

Brian

 

not the job on the sword per se, but on the polisher himself. Are.is there a society for togi?

 

Thanks

 

S.Shepherd