Arsenal Stamps.

[Bruce Pennington]

2 hours ago, Kiipu said:

I think they are both from the same shop, ie Yamamoto.

 

Edit: Or an overstamp of a Suya logo? Note the two curvatures at the bottom.

I think you're right on both points, Thomas!  Can't imagine why Yamamoto would take another shop's tsuba and over stamp it, but it looks like that is what we see here.  Supporting the idea is that when I went through all the Yamamoto on file, they all had the same style 'scoop' marks at the top and bottom, yet this one has a different style more like the scoops on Suya tsuba.

 

Yamamoto tsuba are all like the left one

 

Suya are the style on the right

[Marcin]

Grab some more pics: 

1. yamamoto?

2. Suya

+ seki stamp at tsuba

[Marcin]

Adding 2 nice complete koshirae with Suya stamp.

1. Iron green scabbard

2. weird mix? shishi menuki

Edited July 9 by Marcin

[Nazar]

Type 19 with Suya stamp on the blade.

 

Source: https://www.ebay.com/itm/236448829498

 

[John C]

@Bruce Pennington, et al.

I can't explain this one. The Kanehide I just got has the typical very small Na stamp on the date side and the mune. The mune also has the small seki stamp. So far so good. Here's the rub. There are also two small marks below the seki stamp (the number 2?). Not sure if it means something other than that. The other issue is that even though the small stamps are present, there is no star stamp. My first thought was that it was ground off. But the yasurime are still where the star would normally be found and not ground off (pic 1).

There is, however, what appears to be a faint star shape on the other side of the mekugi ana (pic 2). I am probably just seeing things (like a face in a slice of toast or the cloud game). Plus, I have never seen one in that position.

 

Thoughts? Did not pass inspection (it is very heavy)? Was not made from tamahagane but still hand forged?

 

John C.

[Bruce Pennington]

15 minutes ago, John C said:

Kanehide

Hi John, quite a puzzle. 

First, could I get shots of the date-side, and one of the full rig showing fittings, for my files, please?

 

Mune - I have Kanehide on file with Na Na, but not Na Seki.  And from your photo, I agree the second one dosen't quite look like a Na, but it's tough to see Seki either.  Can you get a shot that clarifies that stamp?  As for the "=" or 2, I don't have any Kanehide with the added number, but it's not unusual.  I have lots of other smiths with a 1, 2, or 3 as the second or third stamp.  No one really knows it's meaning, but it's likely an additional inspector.  Yours is unique because it's a Japanese number rather than Arabic/English.

 

The star - Am I right in seeing some corrosion on that side of the nakago, across the area we see the stamp?  Corrosion can create some real bugga-boos.  Having said that, it sure looks like a partial star to me, too.  Add to that, that I do have one Kanehide with a similar sized star, albeit on the correct side.  Additionally, we have seen blades with the star smack in the middle of the mei.  So, the star stamping technique isn't as iron-clad as we would like to think.  Here's the other one with a similar sized star:

[John C]

1 hour ago, Bruce Pennington said:

First, could I get shots of the date-side, and one of the full rig showing fittings, for my files, please?

Here are the requested photos. Just for extra, it has steel saya, gold wash tsuba, and some sort of pinkish writing on the tsuka end that I cannot read. Eight seppa, however the numbers on everything are mismatched (tsuba is numbered 39, fuchi is numbered 8). Faint green lacquer/paint of a number on the end of the nakago but unreadable. The color is correct for Kanehide and the Na stamp, however. Tsuka is lacquered Type 98 wrap.

John C.

[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks John!  Can you tell me what month that is?

That second stamp still puzzles me, though.

 

I have an August '44 Kanehide with another odd stamp that MIGHT be a Seki, but like yours, it's off enough to make me wonder:

 

 

[John C]

 

43 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Can you tell me what month that is?

The "month" is the word "sho", meaning first month (Shogatsu). So in effect, January. He also used sho in January 45. I'm assuming he did that in 43 as well, though I haven't found an example yet.

Here are some other pics of stamps from the sword. Really not sure what they are (other than the Na). It's possible the number 39 is there since the tsuba and habaki are marked 39. But the fuchi is marked 8 so just a guess.

John C.

Edited Friday at 04:08 PM by John C

[Bruce Pennington]

Much better shot!  We have two other blades (one a star blade) with "Kuma" and "Fuku" that are likely inspector stamps from Kumamoto and Fukuoka.  This could be a third one, or a partially struck Fuku.  It's similar to the top half of Fuku, but I don't know.

Any thoughts @Kiipu

[John C]

Definately not seki, now that I look at it side by side. Here is a seki stamp on one of my other Kanehide for comparison.

 

John C.

[John C]

6 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

but I don't know.

Bruce:

What about these two stamps?

 

John C.

[John C]

@Bruce Pennington

Here's a slightly better comparison. I think it is a pretty good match. But I defer to you, Thomas, Trystan, and John for final analysis. Could be the first "special" one you have on record, correct?

Moving on the assumption this is a special consideration sword, the next question is why? Maybe not made from tamahagane or maybe just too long or heavy (it has some weight to it.) I'll do some measurements. 

 

In any case, there has to be some reason it would receive arsenal inspection marks but no star.

 

John C.

[John C]

@Bruce Pennington

 

From a current website. There's still so much confusion about the star stamp.

https://tokyo-nihonto.com/blogs/nihonto-blog/showato-vs-gendaito-ww2-Japanese-sword-guide?

 

John C.

[Bruce Pennington]

On 7/24/2026 at 4:32 PM, John C said:

@Bruce Pennington

Here's a slightly better comparison. I think it is a pretty good match. But I defer to you, Thomas, Trystan, and John for final analysis. Could be the first "special" one you have on record, correct?

Moving on the assumption this is a special consideration sword, the next question is why? Maybe not made from tamahagane or maybe just too long or heavy (it has some weight to it.) I'll do some measurements. 

 

In any case, there has to be some reason it would receive arsenal inspection marks but no star.

 

John C.

 

You might be onto something, here, John.  Really need @Kiipu or @BANGBANGSAN to comment.

[Bruce Pennington]

3 hours ago, John C said:

@Bruce Pennington

 

From a current website. There's still so much confusion about the star stamp.

https://tokyo-nihonto.com/blogs/nihonto-blog/showato-vs-gendaito-ww2-Japanese-sword-guide?

 

John C.

 

I'll see if I can write to those guys tomorrow.

In general, the whole collecting world is 30 years behind us at NMB.  Sure wish they'd join us and get caught up!

[Brian]

He's just plain wrong. It's that simple.

[ROKUJURO]

On 7/2/2026 at 9:24 PM, Bruce Pennington said:

Modified Roman numerals “19“.  Do the fittings have stamped numbers that might correlate?

Bruce,

if I am not mistaken, "19" would be XIX in Roman numerals. In this case I see 10,  4 and 3.

[Conway]

I wouldn’t waste my time trying to educate this person, since they are so off the mark on most things they put in that page-

"Your grandfather's WW2 Japanese sword is either a $200 showato (machine-made) or a $5,000+ gendaito (traditionally forged). Knowing the difference changes everything.” 

 

I’d love to know how they came up with their valuation chart. Since you won’t even find showato being sold from Japan at the price points they list..

 

 

 

[Marcin]

1 minute ago, Conway said:

I wouldn’t waste my time trying to educate this person, since they are so off the mark on most things they put in that page-

"Your grandfather's WW2 Japanese sword is either a $200 showato (machine-made) or a $5,000+ gendaito (traditionally forged). Knowing the difference changes everything.” 

 

I’d love to know how they came up with their valuation chart. Since you won’t even find showato being sold from Japan at the price points they list..

 

 

 

Showato offered at Japan auction would be in 95% cut off part bro. 

[Conway]

Not to get off track and disrupt this thread, but there are sellers in Japan selling showato all the time on eBay (unless the location cannot be trusted)… For example:

 

Masayuki

 

 

[John C]

They also list "star with toykawa", which I have never seen.

 

John C.

[John C]

8 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Really need @Kiipu or @BANGBANGSAN to comment.

Agreed. I am really at a loss to explain why there are the small nagoya marks but no star stamp. My working theories are:

1) Regular steel and not tamahagane was used (maybe it was in short supply that day)

2) It failed mil specs for some reason (the most important of which was weight, so I'll check)

3) It was sold privately AFTER receiving the arsenal inspector stamps.

 

John C.

[Bruce Pennington]

6 hours ago, ROKUJURO said:

Bruce,

if I am not mistaken, "19" would be XIX in Roman numerals. In this case I see 10,  4 and 3.

I can see why you see that.  The way it's written, there are actually a few options.  I don't like how the 'writer' connected lines that make it look like "X NIII".  But from my experience with the system, they don't tend to use the actual Roman Number practice of 4s and 9s.  They made the numbers just add up.

You can see a large discussion of this on:

 

They Modified Roman numberal system used a half-X or V (actually more often they used a "/") for 5.  Then they used up to 4 single strokes "I" for one-four.  So 19 would be

"X V IIII".  In the example we're discussing, the first two strokes of the "N" cross near the edge.  So, to me, this is the "V".  The bottom edge of the "V" happens to touch the first stroke of the "IIII", making them look connected.

 

Of course, I could be completely wrong, but that's how I read it. 

[Kiipu]

On 7/24/2026 at 4:32 PM, John C said:

Could be the first "special" one you have on record, correct?

 

特 = TOKU

Arsenal Stamps.

[John C]

8 minutes ago, Kiipu said:

特 = TOKU

Thank you, Thomas. But do you know the circumstances under which a "special" stamp would be issued?

Also, if I may ask another question, the second mark seems to be a "clause 2" acceptance mark. Do you know what that means?

John C.

Edited yesterday at 05:20 PM by John C

[John C]

14 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

I could be completely wrong,

I think you are correct, Bruce. Their use of roman numerals was not conventional. On the habaki I just got, it follows the same pattern: 3 lines [space] a diagonal slash for 5, then 4 lines = 39, which matches the tsuba.

 

John C.

[ROKUJURO]

It seems the Japanese had their own way of dealing with Roman numerals.
Inspite of my age, this was even before my time.... 

[Bruce Pennington]

12 hours ago, Kiipu said:

 

特 = TOKU

Arsenal Stamps.

Thank you Thomas!  I had that one in our Stamps doc, but didn't connect that in my head to the current discussion and the stamp in the chart John posted.  I see it now.

 

12 hours ago, John C said:

Thank you, Thomas. But do you know the circumstances under which a "special" stamp would be issued?

Also, if I may ask another question, the second mark seems to be a "clause 2" acceptance mark. Do you know what that means?

John C.

While we wait to see if Thomas knows the circumstances of Article 11, I can say I don't believe your "2" in Japanese is the Clause 2 stamp.  We have examples of the Clause 2 and it is always in a circle:

[Bruce Pennington]

I will add that Nick Komiya did not know the reason for the Clause 2 rating.  He discussed it on this Warrelics Thread, Post 17 and Post 21

 

"Besides helmets and bayonets, here are other weapons that were occasionally supplied as category 2 weapons, marked with a ㊁.

    What caused them to be classified as category 2 still remains a mystery to me, though. They do not seem to be defective products, but appear to be produced intentionally judging from the huge quantities ordered in these documents."

and 

"As I mentioned in my helmet thread, the only hypothetical scenario that makes sense to me is that they temporarily had to use lower grade steel in the manufacture of these weapons, due to lack of nickel, chromium or other such mineral component.

Either way, it remains only a hypothesis until proven by documented evidence.

A similar problem is currently being faced by the manufacturing industries worldwide, because of insufficient semiconductor supply. Some will shut down production while others may be forced to continue by using substandard replacements."