Tsuba indentification help and discussion. Tsugushige (次重) mark.

[BBburns]

Hello all, 

 

I have recently come across a Tsuba and wished to find out more about it. if it has an easily identifiable origin? if it's cast or forged?

 

I am new to the hobby and would like to discuss with those whom boast more knowledge than I.

 

Measurements:

7cm X 7cm with a depth of 4.5mm 

Circumference of 21.98cm

 

Thanks for the help :D

 

Edited yesterday at 04:47 PM by BBburns
including further information.

[Dan tsuba]

Hi Balin, and welcome to this great forum!

I can't tell you anything about your tsuba, except that it seems to depict rabbits in water!

 

However, there is one area on your tsuba that I have a question about.

I have included 2 pictures below with the area in question circled in blue.

Is it possible for you to take a more close up photograph of that area, maybe at different angles?

It may help much more knowlegeable members than I am.

Thanks!

 

 

[Okan]

Doesn't look like cast. 

[Brian]

Nope..look legit and pretty decent quality to me.

[Matsunoki]

The rabbit and waves (or hare and waves) is a very popular theme in many aspects of Japanese art including sword fittings. Google will tell you more. Many legends and stories. 

[Kiko]

Hello Balin, welcome to the forum!
 

I would lean towards Sadashige 完重 for the kin-zōgan mei, a signature in nunome zōgan (gold or silver applied over a cross-hatched grid), which seems to be confirmed by the seal-script characters.
 

P.S.: I highly recommend rotating your images before posting; it makes viewing easier by presenting the tsuba and signature in their proper orientation for use.
Also, it is generally advised to take photos against a dark background to make the metal details stand out—though I myself have a bad habit of using white backgrounds...

[BBburns]

50 minutes ago, Dan tsuba said:

Hi Balin, and welcome to this great forum!

I can't tell you anything about your tsuba, except that it seems to depict rabbits in water!

 

However, there is one area on your tsuba that I have a question about.

I have included 2 pictures below with the area in question circled in blue.

Is it possible for you to take a more close up photograph of that area, maybe at different angles?

It may help much more knowlegeable members than I am.

Thanks!

 

 

 

[BBburns]

8 minutes ago, Kiko said:

Hello Balin, welcome to the forum!
 

I would lean towards Sadashige 完重 for the kin-zōgan mei, a signature in nunome zōgan (gold or silver applied over a cross-hatched grid), which seems to be confirmed by the seal-script characters.
 

P.S.: I highly recommend rotating your images before posting; it makes viewing easier by presenting the tsuba and signature in their proper orientation for use.
Also, it is generally advised to take photos against a dark background to make the metal details stand out—though I myself have a bad habit of using white backgrounds...

Thankyou for the insights. I appreciate all the advice for pictures as well. I will read up on Sadashige. Thanks again.

[Dan tsuba]

Thank you Balin for the added close up pictures.

I apologize for not explaining myself clearly enough.

The pictuers I am looking for would be a top down view of that area, so I can see the top of the metal of that area that does not come up all the way to the rim (mimi) of the tsuba.

To me, there may be a question there that needs to be looked into.

But that is just me!

[BBburns]

27 minutes ago, Dan tsuba said:

Thank you Balin for the added close up pictures.

I apologize for not explaining myself clearly enough.

The pictuers I am looking for would be a top down view of that area, so I can see the top of the metal of that area that does not come up all the way to the rim (mimi) of the tsuba.

To me, there may be a question there that needs to be looked into.

But that is just me!

Thankyou for your clarity and assistance in aiding this mystery. Here's some better pictures. 

[MauroP]

I'm inclined to agree with Dan's suspicions (hard to believe, but every now and then it actually happens...).

[Dan tsuba]

Balin, as Mauro stated above, I am suspicious of your tsuba.

The reason is this.

Below is a picture of a tsuba I have with a motif in a mimi (rim) that appears similar to your rim.

The open spaces of the cranes legs and neck seem to have been planned by the tsuba craftsman.

However, on your tsuba, that open space in the wave pattern (that I circled in blue in one of my above posts) just doesn't make any sense (to me).

Not only that, if you take a close look at those wave patterns that seem to be detached from the mimi of your tsuba they don't seem to be fully carved out like the rest of the wave patterns (they kind of end abrubtly).

I don't know!

The only way to know for sure if your piece is hand forged or cast, would be to subject the piece to non-invasive metallurgical testing.

But that was a subject discussed on another thread (which shall not be named here!).

 

 

[BBburns]

14 minutes ago, Dan tsuba said:

Balin, as Mauro stated above, I am suspicious of your tsuba.

The reason is this.

Below is a picture of a tsuba I have with a motif in a mimi (rim) that appears similar to your rim.

The open spaces of the cranes legs and neck seem to have been planned by the tsuba craftsman.

However, on your tsuba, that open space in the wave pattern (that I circled in blue in one of my above posts) just doesn't make any sense (to me).

Not only that, if you take a close look at those wave patterns that seem to be detached from the mimi of your tsuba they don't seem to be fully carved out like the rest of the wave patterns (they kind of end abrubtly).

I don't know!

The only way to know for sure would be to subject the piece to non-invasive metallurgical testing.

But that was a subject discussed on another thread (which shall not be named here!).

 

 

I see your points and shall investigate the rim closer. I'll look into having it inspected in person if I can but for now I am just intrigued at the details of this craft. 

Do you believe this is more of a replica or souvenir?

Either way thanks for the help.

 

(Quick edit: there seems to be some scoring marks on the inside of the mimi and on the edge of where the waves end abruptly)

Edited yesterday at 07:25 PM by BBburns

[Okan]

Balin, hold the tsuba by the edge with your fingertip at the center and tap it gently with your fingernail. Do you hear a high-pitched ringing sound, or is it a dull sound? Cast usually makes a dull sound. 

[BBburns]

5 minutes ago, Okan said:

Balin, hold the tsuba by the edge with your fingertip at the center and tap it gently with your fingernail. Do you hear a high-pitched ringing sound, or is it a dull sound? Cast usually makes a dull sound. 

It has quite a beautiful high sharp note when struck. Like glasses clinking. Thankyou for indulging me in how to test these things. 

[Okan]

9 minutes ago, BBburns said:

It has quite a beautiful high sharp note when struck. Like glasses clinking. Thankyou for indulging me in how to test these things. 

 

No worries. It’s not a textbook test, but it adds another point in favor of it being legit. Sometimes photos can be misleading, so it’s difficult to judge from pictures alone. Of course, the most definitive answer would come from someone with experience examining it in hand. That being said, I’m fairly confident it’s not a cast.

[BBburns]

5 minutes ago, Okan said:

 

No worries. It’s not a textbook test, but it adds another point in favor of it being legit. Sometimes photos can be misleading, so it’s difficult to judge from pictures alone. Of course, the most definitive answer would come from someone with experience examining it in hand. That being said, I’m fairly confident it’s not a cast.

Excellent to hear and only makes me want to have it appraised in person. Thanks again! 

[Dan tsuba]

Hi Balin,

Thanks for the added pictures.

See what you started!

Ha, ha, ha, ha, etc!

The more I look at your added pictures of the inside of one of the hitsu-ana (oblong slots) and the mimi (rim) of your tsuba and the abrubt ending of those wave patterns that are not attached to the mimi (because those wave patterns were not fully cast - my opinion), the more I am inclined to believe that it may be cast iron.

I don't believe that it is a souvenir, but it may be a replica (cast) of a hand forged tsuba.

Like I said before, only subjecting it to non-invasive metallurgical testing will solve the question.

But hey, who has the money for that!

[Justin]

Here’s a rabbit and waves tsuba from my collection. Choshu school.

 

I like how the rabbits appear to be leaping through the waves.

 

[Dan tsuba]

Wow Justin!

What a beautiful tsuba!

Thanks for sharing!

But I can't help comparing your obviously hand forged tsuba with the motif attached to the mimi, with the tsuba that Balin showed.

My opinion is that there is a big difference in the craftsmanship between what I consider Balin's cast iron tsuba (and yes, I could be wrong on my opinion of it being cast iron!) and your beautiful tsuba.

[BBburns]

I see exactly how you mean Dan now that Justin has shared theirs (thanks Justin) even the colour of the metal is different. A comparison is always helpful. Beautiful Tsuba Justin.

[Dan tsuba]

Now, if the mei on Balin's tsuba is an Edo period craftsman - and as Kiko (Nicolas) stated " I would lean towards Sadashige 完重 for the kin-zōgan mei, a signature in nunome zōgan (gold or silver applied over a cross-hatched grid), which seems to be confirmed by the seal-script characters." -  then we have a possible cast iron tsuba made in the Edo period.

Oh wait!  That is another thread.

Oh well, I am getting confused once again!

Ha, ha, ha, ha, etc!

[Hector]

9 hours ago, Justin said:

Here’s a rabbit and waves tsuba from my collection. Choshu school.

 

I like how the rabbits appear to be leaping through the waves.

 

That tsuba is absolutely stunning! 😍

[Kurikata]

My two cents: due to the kin zogan mei, probably a tsuba of the tetsugendo school. 

[Kiko]

I did some digging yesterday but haven't managed to find a similar mei or seal so far.
Furthermore—assuming my proposed reading is correct (though, admittedly, it doesn't seem to be generating wild enthusiasm, aside from Dan's support)—Wakayama and Haynes don't list any tsubakoshi with this exact kanji.

Edited 12 hours ago by Kiko