Same old topic- Trying to find info on my Grand fathers WWII Gunto

[TTippett]

So I have done enough sleuthing, I believe, to have figured out this is a Type 98 Army Officers Gunto, I believe dated Aug 1943. (Please correct me if I am wrong in some way.). So the story as it was told to my dad and then me.  My grandfather took this from a Japanese Officer POW, most likely early 1945 in Luzon, when he was with the 6th Army Division re-occupying the Philippines.  My grandfather, a major, was the Fire Direction Officer in Charge of the 90mm anti-air guns. He later went on to be station in Yokohama, were my father attended school until he was like 6.

 

i have zero questions about authenticity.  My dad has an officers Sabre from Desert storm as well.  If my date analysis is good.  I guess I’m just wanting more info on the maker and more about the blade? Traditional made/machine made somewhere in between? And I’m only vaguely familiar with the traditional terms, I’ve been learning as I try to learn this swords story.

[TTippett]

Unfortunately, these are the only photos I have right now.  I returned the sword to my father after my Brother and nephew created the case and mount.  I can get more later, if needed.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Hello Terrance and welcome to the forum. Your sword looks to be an oil tempered example rather than a traditionally forged sword. The blue/brown tassel indicates the Japanese officer held a rank between Lieutenant-Captain. 

[Ray Singer]

Signed Norinaga (憲長) and dated August, 1943.

[John C]

Terrance:

Here is some additional info. You are correct in it being a type 98 and the date is August 1943.  

The scabbard is missing a few parts. A decorative collar and the end piece. The tassel is a company grade tassel, meaning it would have been used by a Captain, Lieutenent, or Warrant officer. The small square stamp above the signature is the Nagoya stamp and I think there is a remnant of the Seki stamp above the date. These would indicate a non-traditionally made blade. The numbers on the tsuba are 501 and would have corresponded to number stamped on the other parts as well as written in lacquer on the tang (appears to have been cleaned off at some point).

 

Hope this helps,

John C.

Edited July 6 by John C

[Ray Singer]

憲長 = Norinaga

 

https://www.google.com/search?q="憲長"+site%3Awww.militaria.co.za&client=ms-android-google&hs=UnCq&sca_esv=2c9f3752fd8ae692&sxsrf=APpeQnsZ9U-qSeRCjqlPkEj6r7NfMiJDkA%3A1783300297942&ei=yQBLasCLOa-s5NoP0-3rwQw&biw=411&bih=753&oq="憲長"+site%3Awww.militaria.co.za&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIiEi5oay6ZW3IiBzaXRlOnd3dy5taWxpdGFyaWEuY28uemFIlCpQ-RFYlSVwAHgAkAEAmAGyAaABugOqAQMxLjK4AQPIAQD4AQGYAgCgAgCYAwCIBgGSBwCgB4cBsgcAuAcAwgcAyAcAgAgA&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp

[Scogg]

That little stamp above the signature is 名 for: 名古屋陸軍造兵廠監督課 , Nagoya Army Arsenal Supervisory Section.

Swords with these arsenal stamps are not traditionally made in some way. Still made by a smith; but either quenched in oil, made with non-traditional steel, a combination of the two, or other method that omits it from being a fully traditionally made.

Nice looking gunto,
-Sam

 

[TTippett]

Thank you all for the quick and helpful information. Been fun learning and researching the history of this.

[TTippett]

37 minutes ago, John C said:

Terrance:

Here is some additional info. You are correct in it being a type 98 and the date is August 1943.  

The scabbard is missing a few parts. A decorative collar and the end piece. The tassel is a company grade tassel, meaning it would have been used by a Captain, Lieutenent, or Warrant officer. The small square stamp above the signature is the Nagoya stamp and I think there is a remnant of the Seki stamp above the date. These would indicate a non-traditionally made blade. The numbers on the tsuba are 501 and would have corresponded to number stamped on the other parts as well as written in lacquer on the tang (appears to have been cleaned off at some point).

 

Hope this helps,

John C.

I’m not surprised with the missing pieces being in the Philippine jungle, etc.  As for being cleaned I couldnt say this was the way I received it from my cousin and I doubt she messed with it, I think it was still in the original paper my grandmother wrapped it in when she moved out of the house after my grandfather passed in ‘95, who had it for a few months after my grandmother passed away and was returning it to my father.  My Grandfather did have some “paperwork” were he was trying to get information on the sword from the early 80’s but they didn’t have the internet back then, so they wanted him to ship the sword, and I think he had concerns it wouldn’t come back. He may have done something with it.  It seemed like 1 of the pins for holding the handle “tsuba?”on appeared previously damaged.  So maybe?

[Bruce Pennington]

13 hours ago, TTippett said:

r my Brother and nephew created the case and mount.  I

That display is quite beautiful, my compliments!!!

 

Care and cleaning: Japanese Sword Care

 

I don't see the smith in Sesko's list, but here is what Slough has on him:

[TTippett]

3 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

That display is quite beautiful, my compliments!!!

 

Care and cleaning: Japanese Sword Care

 

I don't see the smith in Sesko's list, but here is what Slough has on him:

This is awesome, looks like maybe a sister  to my grandfathers…. Same maker, same month, same year.

[Lareon]

1 hour ago, TTippett said:

This is awesome, looks like maybe a sister  to my grandfathers…. Same maker, same month, same year.

@Bruce Pennington interesting but from memory wasnt 1943 the year that nagoya stamp transitioned to the seki stamp? this blade also august 1943 has the seki stamp where as Terrance's sword has the nagoya stamp. you would know better but does this perhaps indicate the month of transition? edit: ignore this, i can see a seki stamp now

[Lareon]

although looking closer i do spot something

[Lareon]

there is an extremely faint seki stamp, unless thats just a pattern in the yasurime

[TTippett]

55 minutes ago, Lareon said:

there is an extremely faint seki stamp, unless thats just a pattern in the yasurime

Yeah, I think it’s stamped on both sides of the tang.  seki one side and Nagoya on the other….

[Bruce Pennington]

2 hours ago, Lareon said:

i do spot something

Tony,

You are right that 1943 was the height of the use of the NA stamp, but it was still seen in 1944, overlapping the use of the small Seki.

 

                                                                          1940       1941       1942       1943      1944      1945      No Date

Na					1	3	17	96	30	1	4
Na & Gi									3
Seki, small, 3mm								12	29	20	2
Gifu Total								2	40	73	4
Gifu								2	21	50	4
Se & Gi									16	17

[Lareon]

thanks bruce, i knew you'd have a chart for this