Help Needed — Translation & Authentication of Two Possibly Significant Swords

[arnvz]

Hello everyone,

I am new to this forum and know very little about Japanese swords. I am hoping the knowledgeable members here can help me better understand what I may have in my possession.

I recently came into possession of two antique Japanese swords. After doing some preliminary research and getting AI-assisted photo analysis(sketchy at best ) the inscriptions appear to be significant — but I want real expert opinions before I do anything further with these swords. Two of the pictures didn't upload , ill try to get them uploaded in second post 

IMPORTANT: I have not cleaned, polished, or altered either sword in any way. Both are in their original unmodified condition

[arnvz]

Two additional pictures 

[Ray Singer]

In the same way that you would not give someone a paragraph to read by providing separate images showing one letter at a time, it is much better for individuals trying to provide you with a translation to see the entire and full inscription clearly. From what I can see this may be:

 

- Kanemoto godai (fifth generation Kanemoto) 

 

- Kanenao saku 

 

However I would much prefer to see the entire inscription of these two swords, with clear vertical images of the entire mei for each. 

[tosogu_eu]

Its so interesting:

From the post, you can likely already tell which LLM this was. This kind of "significance" would be seen by Chatgpt or Gemini, right? these overly positive, highly encouraging, and sometimes sycophantic responses to keep the user engaged. Its commonly referred to as AI Sycophancy or "automated Flattery".

 

This behavior is dialed up specifically to make the user feel good, dependent, or emotionally attached so they continue using the LLM. If you don't prompt to challenge critical thinking from the AI or (let it) validate the results.

 

 Not blaming anyone here, I just honestly find it very interesting (working in Big4 Tech environment with heavy AI engagement).

 

Best, Alex

[arnvz]

7 hours ago, Ray Singer said:

In the same way that you would not give someone a paragraph to read by providing separate images showing one letter at a time, it is much better for individuals trying to provide you with a translation to see the entire and full inscription clearly. From what I can see this may be:

 

- Kanemoto godai (fifth generation Kanemoto) 

 

- Kanenao saku 

 

However I would much prefer to see the entire inscription of these two swords, with clear vertical images of the entire mei for each. 

Hi Ray, 

 

Thank you for your feed back, point taken on the photography process. Im sure ill get better at this as I get to understand how this process  works , 

 

Please see the vertical image attached. it's incredibly hard to photograph due to the condition of the nakago. thank you for your willing ness to assist a newcomer. 

 

Many thanks 

 

Arno 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ray Singer]

This is a swordsmith who worked around Kanbun period (1661). He claimed to be a 5th generation descendant in the lineage of Mino Kanemoto. 

 

兼元五代目兼直作 - Kanemoto godai-me Kanenao saku

[arnvz]

3 hours ago, tosogu_eu said:

Its so interesting:

From the post, you can likely already tell which LLM this was. This kind of "significance" would be seen by Chatgpt or Gemini, right? these overly positive, highly encouraging, and sometimes sycophantic responses to keep the user engaged. Its commonly referred to as AI Sycophancy or "automated Flattery".

 

This behavior is dialed up specifically to make the user feel good, dependent, or emotionally attached so they continue using the LLM. If you don't prompt to challenge critical thinking from the AI or (let it) validate the results.

 

 Not blaming anyone here, I just honestly find it very interesting (working in Big4 Tech environment with heavy AI engagement).

 

Best, Alex

 Yes , the warm and fuzzy AI flattery is very interesting, Now everyone that finds two rusty swords in an abandoned building can at least feel like they found the holy grail. 

[arnvz]

The second Sword has inscriptions on both sides of the nakago. 

[arnvz]

1 hour ago, Ray Singer said:

This is a swordsmith who worked around Kanbun period (1661). He claimed to be a 5th generation descendant in the lineage of Mino Kanemoto. 

 

兼元五代目兼直作 - Kanemoto godai-me Kanenao saku

Thank you Ray, 

 

 

I also posted the two sides of the nakago form the second sword and have detailed pictures of the characters too if that will help . 

 

Arno 

 

 

 

 

[tosogu_eu]

2 hours ago, arnvz said:

Thank you Ray, 

 

 

I also posted the two sides of the nakago form the second sword and have detailed pictures of the characters too if that will help . 

 

Arno 

 

 

 

 

 

How long is that 2nd one, Arno?

 

The two nakago-ana are interesting. Can be indicating a significant nagase (80+cm?).

 

Best, Alex

[arnvz]

3 hours ago, tosogu_eu said:

 

How long is that 2nd one, Arno?

 

The two nakago-ana are interesting. Can be indicating a significant nagase (80+cm?).

 

Best, Alex

Hi Alex the over all lent is 98 cm with the tang at 24cm and the blade at 74 cm . 

 

Please let me know your thought on the significance of the nagase

. 

 

many thanks 

 

Arno

 

 

 

 

 

Edited Sunday at 07:34 PM by arnvz

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Arno,

If you take your photos on a black background we'll be better able to see what you have.

Grey

[Nobody]

As for the second sword,

手柄山勝重精鍛作 – Tegarayama Katsushige forged.

元治紀元八月日 – The first year of Genji (1864), 8^th month

 

I could not find a smith in the era with the name.