Genuine Type 98 Shin Gunto?

[TLD]

Hey all,

 

I recently picked up my first Type 98 shin gunto and just wanted to learn a bit more about it and verify that the sword is all original. So far from my research, the mountings appear to be genuine, but the relatively uniform waves of the hamon has given me doubts about the blade, however as it's my first T98 I'm not entirely sure. Also, the seller stated the fittings were of mid-war production, but the wood saya and the crude finishing work on some of the fittings leads me to believe it's actually a late war production sword. As for the signature on the tang, I think I've been able to establish the markings as "三池典太", but due to the corrosion I'm not completely certain. Anyways, any information on the sword would be greatly appreciated.

[lonely panet]

rusty mei but fresh drill mekugi is enough to say big troube in little nagoya

[Bruce Pennington]

Hi Drew, welcome to NMB!

I see no problem with the fittings.  My guess is that someone tried to bring out the hamon with an acid wash.  Doesn't mean it's a fake blade, though.  Let's see what the translators say about that mei.

@SteveM @Nobody

[SteveM]

Yes, it says 三池典太　Miike Tenta, a name of a near-legendary swordsmith from the Heian era.

 

Best to consider this one an "homage". The mei adds nothing to the sword, and most people will find it suspicious and therefore an unfortunate addition to the sword. 

[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks Steve!

 

So, Drew, a real Japanese sword, WWII fittings, with gimei signature.  Are you familiar with the practice of gimei?

[Rawa]

Bruce I would be careful here.

It looks weird. Kabuto gane without sarute barrel, all so crudely done. We just had serie of findings with similar unfinished fittings.

We see some wear on it but it could be done by throwing it around.

 

I'm droping here kai gunto with similar mei. Same situation basically with different type. Tsukamaki obvious rewrap or someone was making fakes with some real parts, fresh mekugi ana.

https://www.ikony-antyki.pl/oferty/922a-japonski-miecz-kai-gunto

 

Imo place of these abominations is in fake tab.

 

previous thread with crude fittings, all of these have mei done in bad manner.

 

[Rawa]

Or even another one on ebay

https://www.ebay.com/itm/168395135455?_skw=gunto+menuki&itmmeta=01KSCSTJRM261ZKT5AMX0YAJEA&hash=item273521d9df:g:gYQAAeSwkuZqENKd&itmprp=enc%3AAQALAAAA8GfYFPkwiKCW4ZNSs2u11xD9pExFZS1jPpq2NL87ITAeSsf%2FSL%2FFbU2McfQhBmfsSlinYeeAmnd2IuCcAIlICh0gTrKvrF%2BEbpoxwdzBdXie78T7rcDG%2F56EQIFJShD1fTrhte2sBIeWeZupMURYVCiC6te6gJ32rdtcTjNzwUTU1BFD5XWduFxLsNVmSLcSnyJutHbtCELiw9is7qgd4gaPWu4anEFKhMpf%2BF%2Ffp%2F3P6bzBcujrsblo1o%2FebMidgN6ISPuBfzO44SzO%2FDBDik5FgKf6mNj5JMH7%2F7tfuHYz5jxJHE%2BF2RtOUVKVL1Odpg%3D%3D|tkp%3ABFBMvqzqmctn

 

So strange nakago, yasurime made by machine? With this yasurime it's actually throwing katana never seen before :D

Even as not done by same maker let's group them here.

[Scogg]

Unfortunately, it’s my belief that this is a well done forgery.
 

I think it has a mix of real and fake parts, most of them being fake. It looks like maybe a real fuchi, seppa, and tsuka core; but with fake blade and other fittings. 
 

I see a distinct difference in quality between the saya mouth opening compared to the rest of the metal fittings. Many of which remind me of the crudely cast parts we’ve seen in other threads. See my images below of crudely fittings in my collection; I believe these to be modern fakes.

These details on-top of the blade, of which looks very suspicious to me. The gimei and the corrosion there are big red flags.
 

I’ve been wrong before and I’m certain that I will be again. These are just my opinions based on what we can see. There are late war examples that are very crude, and sometimes the distinction between fake and real can be hard to make…

Even if it is real, I imagine the issues I raised above would continue to make people question its authenticity into the future which would be enough to steer me away from it if at all possible. 
 

Best of luck,

-Sam

 

[Conway]

@TLD Where did you find this sword? There’s a new grifter on eBay selling swords out of CA, but the seller is actually based in China. Looks like it could have come from this seller. 

[rebcannonshooter]

I think Sam is right on the mark with his assessment. For me, the artificial rust on the nakago and the freshly drilled mekugi ana scream fake.

Tom

[TLD]

3 hours ago, Conway said:

@TLD Where did you find this sword? There’s a new grifter on eBay selling swords out of CA, but the seller is actually based in China. Looks like it could have come from this seller. 

Hey again guys,

 

thank you all for your input, it's unfortunate but I guess my suspicions about the blade were right.

 

I purchased it from a local seller off a militaria forum, so I don't believe it's the ebay seller you're referring to.

 

Anyways, after looking over the sword a bit more I noticed some of the cruder fittings were shimmed in place with some small thin wooden shims.

 

Drew

[jeep44]

I probably have 20-30 Type 98s, and I have never seen a saya that color.