Help identifying armor style and period

[shmed]

A local antique seller recently imported this armor from Kyoto, and I’m considering purchasing it. I’m trying to do some research first to better understand what I’d actually be buying.

The seller labeled it as Edo period armor, but didn’t have much documentation or provenance beyond that. To my untrained eye, at least some components (especially the dō/cuirass) seem stylistically appropriate for the period, but I’m very far from an expert.

A few things I’m trying to understand:

• Does this appear to be genuinely antique Japanese armor, or a later decorative reproduction?
• If authentic, does it look more like a true Edo-period suit, a Meiji-era export/display assembly, or a composite “marriage” armor assembled from older parts?
• Does the kabuto/helmet seem consistent with the rest of the armor?
• Any thoughts on the mon/crest?
• Does the condition/restoration raise any red flags?

Unfortunately I don’t have interior kabuto photos, but I included all the detailed angles I was able to take.

Any insights would be greatly appreciated.

[Matsunoki]

I am just a beginner on armour so this is just an unreliable opinion.

Others on here will hopefully chime in.

To me this looks a genuine un-messed with Edo era armour however the condition, especially the Kabuto and Menpo is pretty rough and unrestorable without considerable expenditure. It would require specialist knowledge and ability to fix it. The sleeve lacquer looks badly damaged also.
Given that the bulk of the value usually rests on the Kabuto and Menpo it is not something to go mad on$

I’m interested to hear what others say….so don’t rely on what I’ve said🙂

[shmed]

1 hour ago, Matsunoki said:

I am just a beginner on armour so this is just an unreliable opinion.

Others on here will hopefully chime in.

To me this looks a genuine un-messed with Edo era armour however the condition, especially the Kabuto and Menpo is pretty rough and unrestorable without considerable expenditure. It would require specialist knowledge and ability to fix it. The sleeve lacquer looks badly damaged also.
Given that the bulk of the value usually rests on the Kabuto and Menpo it is not something to go mad on$

I’m interested to hear what others say….so don’t rely on what I’ve said🙂

Thank you for the reply. I ended up purchasing it for around $2500. The lacquer is indeed in pretty rough shape all around. I'm glad it at least look period correct. I don't see those type of antique for sale in my city pretty odte, so maybe I was too quick to pull the trigger hehe. I hope $2500 isn't too much of an over pay! (I'm not going to wear it, it's really just a cool show piece for my man cave/home office)

[uwe]

Welcome Raouf,

 

at a glance, Edo, although the pics are a bit blurry and not much detail is to spot (which is important to determine the set in terms of age as well as if it is composite or not). 
Like Colin already stated, the condition is (especially of the urushi) not good. That’s a problem in so far that there is no trained armor restorer in the states (as far as I know) except maybe one…but I think he does not accept orders?!

What can be said for the time being is that the helmet is a so called Momonari-kabuto “桃形兜” (peach shaped helmet) sporting a Suigyō maedate “水牛角” (water buffalo horn). The crest on the fukigaeshi of the shikoro is based on “Ken-katabami” (oxalis with old style swords). I can try to narrow it down if you like…

 

There is much more to say, but I prefer to wait for better images!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[shmed]

17 hours ago, uwe said:

Welcome Raouf,

 

at a glance, Edo, although the pics are a bit blurry and not much detail is to spot (which is important to determine the set in terms of age as well as if it is composite or not). 
Like Colin already stated, the condition is (especially of the urushi) not good. That’s a problem in so far that there is no trained armor restorer in the states (as far as I know) except maybe one…but I think he does not accept orders?!

What can be said for the time being is that the helmet is a so called Momonari-kabuto “桃形兜” (peach shaped helmet) sporting a Suigyō maedate “水牛角” (water buffalo horn). The crest on the fukigaeshi of the shikoro is based on “Ken-katabami” (oxalis with old style swords). I can try to narrow it down if you like…

 

There is much more to say, but I prefer to wait for better images!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you so much Uwe for the reply. I'll try to find my dslr tomorrow and take additional higher resolution photos. Let me know if there's any part in particular you'd want me to photograph. Thank you again.

[Lewis B]

I saw your post on FB. A suggestion was made to check the kabuto etc with a magnet. Did you try that?

[YOJIMBO]

hello.
unlike others i can see at first glance what it is. the photos are sufficient. you bought scrap.

[shmed]

9 hours ago, Lewis B said:

I saw your post on FB. A suggestion was made to check the kabuto etc with a magnet. Did you try that?

Hi Lewis, not sure if you saw the reply I made on Facebook, but here's what the magnet test revealed:

Bowl is likely raw hide (not magnetic). However, elements of the helmet are magnetic, such as the fin on top, as well as the fukigaeshi (I think that's what it's called - the flap/wings with the mon). The shikoro also is magnetic. On the body, the cuirasse as well as the "skirt" plating (not sure on the name) are also magnetic. The chain mail on the arms is magnetic, but not the shoulder plates.

 

8 hours ago, YOJIMBO said:

hello.
unlike others i can see at first glance what it is. the photos are sufficient. you bought scrap.

Thanks for the feedback. Curious if you could expand on it. I'm well aware this is not a highly collectible or museum worth piece (I paid $2500 so I have to be realistic). I also know it's in terrible state. I'm mostly curious to hear if it's authentic or not, and if it's not, what are the tells. Thank you

[Baka Gaijin]

Good afternoon Raouf,

 

What you have is a perfect study piece for you at your stage in the great game.

 

What you have paid is what is often referred to as "School Fees" in the Antiques Trade.

 

Now you need to get to see as much of the best quality as you can, either physically at museums or using Google Museum search etc, and compare it to what you have, in a positive, take it on the chin and move on manner.

 

I can remember my first purchase of an armour, way back, it cost me £20, an absolute fortune in those days, when woke meant something to do with the interim betwixt sleep and awake and Nihonto were dumped into old Tea Chests at the back of the Antiques shop with a standard price of £4 Ten shillings for a Wakizashi and £ 5 Ten shillings for a Katana. (As you are in the Americas, I think that would probably equate with a Burger and Fries for the wakizashi and a Burger and Fries and a Milk shake for the Katana.......  and a slap up table for two at Dennys for the armour.

 

But to a 12 year old, Fledgling Katchubunny, I thought it was amazing, and I was absolutely sure that Toshiro Mifune had worn it at the Battle of Sekigahara.........

 

I looked at it so closely, every rivet,  every delamination of the Urushi, every rust hole and fraying of the Blue odoshi, that it became like a road map.

 

So, have the courage to fail old chum.

 

 

 

[uwe]

Condition of the lacquer aside, there are signs that it (once) might be not that bad!

Without better pictures we can only speculate, though…

Despite some notes:

It seems the whole armor (haidate missing) is laced with “絵革” (e-gawa = printed leather)?

It also seems that munaita, oshitsuke no ita, etc. are covered in “金唐革” (kinkara-gawa = gilded? embossed leather)?

 

Given the fact that armor parts made of nerikawa are not really inferior to its counterparts of iron and the above assumptions are true, we may have a matching armor with at least two somewhat more expensive features. 
 

Curious about more pics…

@Raouf: the “skirt plating” suspended from the dō is called “kusazuri” (草摺).

 

 

[shmed]

Uwe, thank you so much for all the valuable information so far. I just found my DLSR and I'm currently charging the battery, but I took a few more zoomed in photos using my phone in the meantime. Its great that you pointed out the printed leather, the same pattern can indeed be found on almost every piece of the armor (I'm at the size limit since I'm uploading high resolution photos, so I'll be uploaded them separately)

[shmed]

More photos:

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[Matsunoki]

Interesting and informative comments from @uwe 

Again stressing my beginner status on armour, the use of nerikawa during the peace times of Edo was popular because you got the look but not the weight or the cost. Parading around on horse or foot  in a heavy iron yoroi, especially the Kabuto, Menpo and Sode would be rather uncomfortable on neck and shoulders I  think? So the lighter nerikawa was widely used (or so I have read) including by higher ranking Samurai. Couple that with the more luxurious lacing and a Kabuto/shikoro and Menpo that I personally found attractive with its high central ridge (ignoring condition) and you may have bought something that was once really quite decent.

But of course I could be spouting rubbish🙂…..someone correct me if I’m wrong please.

[Bugyotsuji]

Just been reading this thread today, late to the party. There is plenty to learn and enjoy in this set, as Malcolm says, and you could even do some gentle cleaning yourself to make it more presentable. Ask for cleaning tips first! Stabilizing the cracking and huge lacquer flakes will take some thought. So much is lost on the kote that reducing them to bare iron could be a consideration. The kabuto looks nice underneath, and the overall shapes of the bowl and the shikoro look fine. 

 

The dealer probably knew little about it, as the sune-ate were upside-down. I'd look closely at the ho-ate though, as that could be (painted) fibreglass showing under the chin(?). I would mend or even change the maedate too as the destruction of the horn tips draws the eye and is ugly to look at. 

 

I feel that this armour will be happy that someone is giving it a home, and in return it should give you the new owner hours of pleasure. No need to listen to any negativity. Just save what you can of history, and eventually pass it on, hopefully in slightly better condition.