trygve Posted January 9, 2007 Report Posted January 9, 2007 Hello! I know that all Japanese sword need to have a registration card. Is this just for antigue sword and shinsakuto made by smiths working in the traditionally way. Or do all Iaido + sharp "wall hengers" need one to! Whar information do the registration card contain? Sincerely trygve Quote
Nobody Posted January 10, 2007 Report Posted January 10, 2007 The following items are to be written on the certificate. Shubetu (種別): classification such as Katana, wakizashi, tanto, and so on Nagasa (長さ): blade length in centimeter Sori (反り): curve in centimeter Mekugi-ana (目くぎ穴): number of mekugi-ana Meibun (銘文): mei, date, etc. Biko (備考): notes FYI: APPLICATION OF THE SWORD LAW AND RELATED TOPICS http://www.nihontokanjipages.com/japane ... _laws.html Quote
trygve Posted January 10, 2007 Author Report Posted January 10, 2007 If a sword do have a authentic registration card, I can asume it is real? I understand the comitee that do the examination are all qualified sword experts. Is it common to fake these registrations card in order to sell as antique sword. trygve Quote
Nobody Posted January 10, 2007 Report Posted January 10, 2007 Basically, a sword with Torokusho is a real nohonto. I do not know if it is common or not, but a fake Torokusho does exist. Ref. an example of a fake Torokusho http://collect.jp/~sword-ebay/gimei/official.html Quote
trygve Posted January 10, 2007 Author Report Posted January 10, 2007 the blade in question certenly has all the known elements of a real nihonto. The nakago, kissaki, sugata all looks right. the blade is rusty and many scratches wich make it very hard to judge if there is a hamon and jihada. But some places in the ha there is little rust. I should be able to se some outlines or difference in the metal. I have seen many sword in bad condition and most of them you will find some indication on hamon if its not to badly rusted. I am starting to think it may be fire damage and lost its hamon. I have bought a few sword fram Japan before and they usually comes with shinsa papers from differents appraiser. This is the first time I got the registration card with the sword I think I maybe will post some photos!' trygve Quote
mike yeon Posted January 10, 2007 Report Posted January 10, 2007 You might have gotten a copy of the card. I believe practice is when they ship it out, customs discards the original card. I've seen swords outside of Japan with copies of cards, never the original. mike Quote
John A Stuart Posted January 10, 2007 Report Posted January 10, 2007 Hi Mike, According to regulations the torokusho is to be turned in for a kobijutsuhin yushutsu kansa shomei for export. However sometimes this is bypassed and swords are exported with the torokusho. Here is one that came to me a few years back. Unless fake. John Quote
Mark Posted January 10, 2007 Report Posted January 10, 2007 I have recived a number of swords from Japan with the original registration cards. Also remember the cards just carry the information on the tang, they are not "shinsa" papers, the mei could well be gimei, some sellers try to assert that the registration card confirms the signature is genuine, this is a lie. Mark J Quote
mike yeon Posted January 10, 2007 Report Posted January 10, 2007 Hey John, how's it going? I'm sure cards slip through the system now and then, just stating the process. I see sellers sometimes offering photo copies, laminated color copies and such of Japanese registration cards. Also, the registration card system is used by the government to keep track of and catalogue nihonto. It's not meant to indicate quality, or for appraisal purposes (like papers from the NBTHK or NTHK.) mike Quote
John A Stuart Posted January 10, 2007 Report Posted January 10, 2007 Hi Mike, Mark, You are right they are absolutely meaningless outside of Japan. I don't know why they come with swords except to help make a sword appear more legitimate. These are so easy to copy and replace any info on them. I kept that one as a keepsake example. John Quote
trygve Posted January 10, 2007 Author Report Posted January 10, 2007 Some time ago I bought a similar piece from one respected US dealer. It was sold as a late shinto - early shin-shinto wak This was in the same condition. looked like real nihonto with nice nakago with good patina and filemark, sugata, kissaki also good, . It came back from the polisher with with the message that it was missing hamon. The polisher also thought it to be a real nihonto, but after opening a window on the blade there where none of the trademark of a traditionally med sword. Well ! it a risky thing to buy these out of condition blades. But it is worth it when one comes over a nice blade and thay arrive with new polish from the togishi Quote
Richie112 Posted January 12, 2007 Report Posted January 12, 2007 Just out of curiosity what is the effect in Japan of a dealer/smith not handing in the registration card? I have heard of the practice of people being sent swords without the registration card. My understanding was that the card had to be handed in with the registration application for the sword to be exported. Otherwise the sword wouldn't be allowed to be sent abroad..... or am I wrong? Does this mean that nihonto are being shipped as mogito? Quote
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