Ubu Mumei Wakizashi in original koshirae for Sale:

[Salvatori Moretto]

Ubu Mumei Wakizashi in original koshirae for Sale:  

Nagasa/Blade Length :  13 7/8th inches from tsuba to tip of kissaki.
Sori : 4.4mm approx.
Hamon Type : More of a Hoso-suguha
Jihada : Very tight, too tight for me (and my novice eyes) to say one or another but in some areas in the right light you can see some nice light waves
Flaws : There is hazy rust scattered throughout the blade, none active, light scratched visible in certain lighting, and some green build up under the habaki, though the habaki is easily removable and not stuck.
Sword Location : Tallahassee Florida
Will ship to : World wide
Payment Methods Accepted : Paypal preferred, friends and family or you can cover the fees. But I also use cash app.
Price and Currency : $1750 USD OBO.

Other Info and Full Description : 

Selling this as a favor for a neighbor. She was given this as one of her wedding gifts as she left Japan. She doesn't have much information on it but she does have whats looks to be the original registration paper for it. So if anyone has more information please feel free to comment with any and all observations!  

 

Blade is in overall great condition, and though a fresh polish would help see more, there is still a lot that can be seen and appreciated in its current condition. Edge is in great condition with no knicks, blade and edge is straight, and is about 5.75mm thick!

Looks to be a polished and lacquered buffalo horn kashira (could be wrong lol) and a lacquered soft metal fuchi, menuki looks to be monkey themed, and tsuba is a iron nature/mountain theme and is signed (haven't been able to translate signature yet.) .

Saya has been restored as it was in poor shape; cracked, missing lacquer, and buffalo horn. I had Wally Hostetter do the work on this one, keeping as much of the original buffalo horn as he could, saving the core of the saya, and matching the original lacquer very well.

 

Thanks everyone!
Sal' from Koala Forge

 

 

 

Edited December 14 by Salvatori Moretto
fixing title to reflect item

[ROKUJURO]

Salvatore,

as you can see on the TOROKUSHO, it is a WAKIZASHI (TANTO have a max. length of 303 mm).

The KOSHIRAE looks new, and the photos of the blade are not telling much. Perhaps try with a dark, non-reflecting background in a dark room, using s spotlight. All NAKAGO photos vertically tip-upwards.

[Salvatori Moretto]

Thank Jean!!!

 

I'll see if i can get some better pictures of the blade for everyone tomorrow  

The koshirae in general are indeed original, but as noted the saya was touched up, and I believe he may have touched up the lacquer on the fuchi as well.

[Lewis B]

Well it could be a sunobi tanto and they can be well over 30cm. Need to see the blade in its entirety. 

[ROKUJURO]

Lewis,

it could well have been used and seen as a TANTO in past times, but with today's market regulations, it is a WAKIZASHI as the TOROKUSHO says. 

[Salvatori Moretto]

A few more pictures, and links to a honestly bad attempt to capture each side with video. The details are just really hard to capture with my phones conditions, spends too much time in the forge with me lol

 

 

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/penjsi0proa6dhemrejao/Video-Dec-16-2025-9-33-48-AM.mov?rlkey=junxv529ya4u7s1jsfd8zlgo4&st=vxls8wqv&dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/rn2xhm02xzityutxewvx9/Video-Dec-16-2025-9-36-47-AM.mov?rlkey=nbnp071m0uv99q520oam0o865&st=peayi37x&dl=0

[Mikaveli]

On 12/14/2025 at 9:50 PM, ROKUJURO said:

Lewis,

it could well have been used and seen as a TANTO in past times, but with today's market regulations, it is a WAKIZASHI as the TOROKUSHO says. 

 

Aren't there in excess of 100 Juyo tanto over 30.3 cm?

 

Torokusho is only a superficial record of the as-presented blade - with no research or context. I'd accept it if we were talking about an NBTHK kanteisho...

[ROKUJURO]

MIchael,

I only cited the TOROKUSHO as it named the blade correctly within the actual regulations of the NBTHK.
As I stated, I know that the NAGASA of a TANTO could vary in former times, but I think when a blade is sold today, we should follow the accepted dimensions.  

But personally, I am not hurt by any other denomination you might choose. 

[eternal_newbie]

1 hour ago, Mikaveli said:

Aren't there in excess of 100 Juyo tanto over 30.3 cm?

 

Sunnobi tanto, yes. Wakizashi size by modern torokusho categorisation, but clearly made to be used as tanto based on the era and shape. Oversize tanto are a kantei point for certain smiths, including Soshu Sadamune. Given that this has a tanto sugata but is over 30.3cm and mounted like a wakizashi, either term is appropriate.

[Ed]

I think the confusion boils down to semantics and/or context.

 

Were there Tanto over 1 shaku? Yes, Sunnobi Tanto were blades with a nagasa greater than 1 shaku and mounted as a tanto.

 

In todays world of Japanese swords, the regulations which govern entities such as the NBTHK have set the criteria at three basic designations, tanto, wakizashi, and katana with some rare exceptions.

 

If you submit a sword today mounted as a tanto, sunnobi or whatever, and the nagasa is over 1 shaku, it will be papered as a wakizashi.

 

1 hour ago, Mikaveli said:

Torokusho is only a superficial record of the as-presented blade - with no research or context.

Yes and no. They actually call the entry process shinsa. While not in the context we commonly think of as shinsa which is much more detailed, they do have to address topics like measurements and mei for the torokusho. There is no research regarding the authenticity of the mei, but the measurements have to be correct, not superficial by law. It you are checked by the Japanese police and the measurements do not match the torokusho, the trouble you will incur will be far from superficial.

 

As in the case of the torokusho in question, it clearly states "Wakizashi".

 

1 hour ago, Mikaveli said:

Aren't there in excess of 100 Juyo tanto over 30.3 cm?

Yes, there are Juyo Tanto with nagasa slightly over 1 shaku that were papered some years ago. Honestly, not sure if that is still the case today. If you have evidence of modern papers which state "Tanto" with nagasa over 1 shaku, I would like to see them.

@Jussi Ekholm would probably know.

 

Here is one example from the Juyo Zufu: Hoshu ju Fujiwara Tomoyuki, Bungo, Joji 1362-1368, Sa school. Tanto, Nagasa: 1.07 shaku 1 sun, 2 bu.

 

[Mikaveli]

4 hours ago, Ed said:

There is no research regarding the authenticity of the mei, but the measurements have to be correct, not superficial by law. It you are checked by the Japanese police and the measurements do not match the torokusho, the trouble you will incur will be far from superficial.

 

~~~ snip ~~~

 

Yes, there are Juyo Tanto with nagasa slightly over 1 shaku that were papered some years ago. Honestly, not sure if that is still the case today. If you have evidence of modern papers which state "Tanto" with nagasa over 1 shaku, I would like to see them.

 

 

 

Apologies if English isn't your first language, but superficial doesn't mean inaccurate, just that in this case it's a visual analysis, of the obvious features on the surface. Literally its outward appearance, as presented. 

 

The mei will be recorded as written, even if obviously gimei, and the physical measurements are taken too. These are superficial details.

 

As for modern papers, after a casual search I found an example from Reiwa 4 (2022), that I'd consider modern. Admittedly, of the current generation papers I see, most do record the blade as wakizashi above 1 shaku, but there are exceptions.

 

 

[Ed]

2 hours ago, Mikaveli said:

Apologies if English isn't your first language, but superficial doesn't mean inaccurate, just that in this case it's a visual analysis, of the obvious features on the surface. Literally its outward appearance, as presented. 

I do speak English. Perhaps you struggle with comprehension. You are putting words in my mouth. I never used the word inaccurate.

Superficial: appearing to be true or real only until examined more closely.  concerned only with the obvious or apparent : not thorough or complete. 

 

The measurements must be more than a superficial, they must be accurate as I stated previously. 

[Mikaveli]

5 hours ago, Ed said:

I do speak English. Perhaps you struggle with comprehension. You are putting words in my mouth. I never used the word inaccurate.

Superficial: appearing to be true or real only until examined more closely.  concerned only with the obvious or apparent : not thorough or complete. 

 

The measurements must be more than a superficial, they must be accurate as I stated previously. 

 

Are you sure, because you've misconstrued my statement and said this:

 

12 hours ago, Ed said:

There is no research regarding the authenticity of the mei, but the measurements have to be correct, not superficial by law. It you are checked by the Japanese police and the measurements do not match the torokusho, the trouble you will incur will be far from superficial.

 

So, whilst you didn't use the word inaccurate, you stated that measurements have to be accurate, and you'll be in trouble if they are not. You're arguing a point I didn't make, because you didn't understand what I said.

 

Getting back on topic, my point was that when issuing torukusho, no in depth research is carried out, they won't check whether a smith is known for making oversized tanto - or what the original usage of the blade would have been in context. I.e. only the superficial elements are recorded.

 

Next, you neglected to acknowledge that there are indeed modern papers for tanto-designated blades above 1 shaku. Unless you're now going to contradict my usage of "modern" to an even more recent period?

[Brian]

Guys, it's almost Xmas, can we get less defensive and a little more chilled in our discussions? Let's have a peaceful December.
Ed has been around the block more than most, and I can assure you he is just giving the facts as he knows them.

[Mikaveli]

@Salvatori Moretto apologies for the derailment of your for sale post (hopefully it'll at least drive some views).

 

I just wanted to make the point that your initial description of tanto wasn't necessarily inaccurate, and that the distinction between sunobi tanto and ko-wakizashi is somewhat arbitrary (and in many cases can accurately be described as either, when above 1 shaku).

[Mikaveli]

23 minutes ago, Brian said:

Guys, it's almost Xmas, can we get less defensive and a little more chilled in our discussions? Let's have a peaceful December.
Ed has been around the block more than most, and I can assure you he is just giving the facts as he knows them.

 

With a Japanese language email address, and with him replying with what seemed to be an obvious misunderstanding, when I said "apologies if English isn't your first language", that wasn't snark, and didn't merit the response ”Perhaps you struggle with comprehension".

 

Setting aside his contribution being inaccurate, as an admin you've elected to only defend his contribution?

 

 

[Salvatori Moretto]

4 hours ago, Mikaveli said:

@Salvatori Moretto apologies for the derailment of your for sale post (hopefully it'll at least drive some views).

 

I just wanted to make the point that your initial description of tanto wasn't necessarily inaccurate, and that the distinction between sunobi tanto and ko-wakizashi is somewhat arbitrary (and in many cases can accurately be described as either, when above 1 shaku).

 

 

Well I do love a good debate, and the added views don't hurt either! <3

As stated, I'm simply selling this for a neighbor to help her out, so if this debate helps me to that end, fire on folks!!! BUT lets all learn something and be open minded to another person's ideas, facts, and all contributions. Always assume the person you're arguing with knows something you don't

 

Also with that being said, if I have priced this incorrectly, either too high, or too low, please feel free to PM directly and let me know! I tried to price it based on the perceived value of what I see and the package overall as a whole for the condition its in, but this doesn't take many things into account!

 

Warmly,

Sal'

[Ed]

6 hours ago, Mikaveli said:

when I said "apologies if English isn't your first language", that wasn't snark

Well, it surely came across as being a smart ass reply. All you had to do was look at my name and see I am in the US.

 

7 hours ago, Mikaveli said:

You're arguing a point I didn't make, because you didn't understand what I said.

 

Oh, I did understand what you said, "The mei will be recorded as written, even if obviously gimei, and the physical measurements are taken too. These are superficial details."

 

This were you are wrong, these are NOT superficial details. The are very important details and must be accurate on the torokusho. Outside Japan, in the US, UK, or wherever is the torokusho as important, no. Firstly, torokusho should not be outside Japan. It is illegal to export swords without going through the export process which includes submitting the torokusho to the government for their records. Does it happen, of course, but it is generally tourists who do not adhere to this rule. If a dealer is caught ignoring this law, they can get in big trouble, possibly lose their dealer license.

 

In Japan, the torokusho must be kept with the sword, in simple terms think of it like a Concealed Carry Permit. If your permit says Joe, and your Drivers license says Bob do you think the police will say oh, that is a superficial detail, let him go.

 

If you get checked by the Japanese police and the torokusho does not match the details of the sword, you are in trouble.

 

Especially if the sword being checked is mumei. The only way to identify it is by the measurements on the torokusho, they must be identical to the sword. The shubetsu, nagasa, sori, ana, all become vitally important in preventing confiscation of the sword and possibly seeing the inside of a Japanese jail.

If you wish to consider that superficial, fine. I do not!

 

7 hours ago, Mikaveli said:

Next, you neglected to acknowledge that there are indeed modern papers for tanto-designated blades above 1 shaku. Unless you're now going to contradict my usage of "modern" to an even more recent period?

 

I clearly stated. "there are Juyo Tanto with nagasa slightly over 1 shaku that were papered some years ago. Honestly, not sure if that is still the case today". I posted an example of one.  If you have evidence of modern papers which state "Tanto" with nagasa over 1 shaku, I would like to see them.

 

The example you provided supports my claim that if over 1 shaku it is not papered as a tanto, but as a wakizashi.

Still waiting on an an example of a blade over 1 shaku being papered as a tanto.

 

Modern papers are after the NBTHK changed from Nintesho to Kanteisho in 1982 (Showa 57) related to corruption and a government takeover. Papers were never issued by the NBTHK prior to 1948 (Showa 23) therefore old and new terminology is clear.

 

At any rate I am am done arguing, believe what you will.

Merry Christmas

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 03:45 PM by Ed

[Mikaveli]

7 minutes ago, Ed said:

The example you provided supports my claim that if over 1 shaku it is not papered as a tanto, but as a wakizashi.

Still waiting on an an example of a blade over 1 shaku being papered as a tanto.

 

短刀

 

Greater than 1 shaku. Modern paper.

 

[Ed]

2 hours ago, Salvatori Moretto said:

Well I do love a good debate, and the added views don't hurt either! <3

 

I regret this deteriorated into a back and forth over a simple thing. I have 30+ years experience, co-owned a small shop in Fukuoaka, been a member of this board since 2006. My point is that I do not claim to be an expert and I make mistakes.

 

Now we have seen photo of modern papers showing a blade with over 1 shaku nagasa and papered as a tanto, Glad to see an example for my own knowledge. I had not seen one and I wondered if some of the old ones wren't mistakes or typos. ??

Edited Wednesday at 04:05 PM by Ed

[Ed]

16 minutes ago, Mikaveli said:

Greater than 1 shaku. Modern paper.

Missed it first time and I stand corrected on this point. Happy to see this example, it is a first for me.

 

I do still stand by my comments regarding the torokusho.

Edited Wednesday at 04:09 PM by Ed

[Mikaveli]

46 minutes ago, Ed said:

Missed it first time and I stand corrected on this point. Happy to see this example, it is a first for me.

 

I do still stand by my comments regarding the torokusho.

 

For the torokusho, I think we're only disagreeing on semantics - we've both set out our case, so all is well. 🙂

 

For the NBTHK certificates, these are rare - I can only recall ever seeing 2 or 3. As you say, the vast majority will be described as wakizashi on the kanteisho (even if the seller describes it as a tanto).